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 Tournament 

What should the prize be?
Poll ended at Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:41 pm
A pkmn 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
A rare item 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
a shiny 88%  88%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 16

 Tournament 
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Ace Trainer
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Using Dragonite as an example, he can survive a x4 damage ice beam, and dragon dance. With his defensive powers and good hps, coupled with massive attack power he can wreck a lot of pokes, which is why he's still used.

Now admittedly inner focus isn't the Best ability that could be on a dragonite, but with proper evs, it can get off Focus punches. That's plural.

Now let's look at Cresselia. It has levitate. So no one will use earthquake against it. Not to say that it, like the regis is crappy and should be allowed far from it. They are incredible sponges and walls, it's just weird to compare them with High attack pokemon.

With anti ice berries, and dragon dance Weavile, Starmie, and Gyrados are all not that threatening. I agree 600 stat pokemon aren't uber, but they are a cut above the average poke and removing them from the list creates diversity. Not for every battle, but a perfectly fine thing to do.

The kind tournament runner is trying to meet everyone half way on this.


Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:32 pm
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Umm. Without holding Yache berry, he can't survive an ice attack. His special defense is only decent, and it's not going to be boosted with nature/EVs. His def is even worse. His HP is crap....I dunno what you're talking about. My dragonite holds the Yache berry, has a high Special Def IV, and max HP Iv and some EVs to boot. Even with the berry, an Ice beam un-stabbed almost kills him. And by holding the berry, he can't hold something to hit like Life Orb or whatever. Every choice has a penalty to it.

"with proper evs it can get off focus punches" And how would that work exactly? And why would you use focus punch on a dragonite in the first place? Anyone can technically get off one punch, and at the same time all pokemon have a risk of not getting any off. And by the way, Mence and Nite are also weak to Rock, another common type (let alone Stealth Rock)

"weird to compare them to high attack pokemon" Well, you said that they weren't as good as the list of sweepers the TC wanted to ban. So YOU compared them first. and I didn't exactly compare them, I gave examples of each usefulness and what it can do and let the readers decide which is more powerful.
Weavile, Starmie, and Gyrados not threatening? >.> Okay. That's your opinion and I can't force that out of you. Gyrados is one of the best sweepers in the game. Weavile makes dragons switch out, but he also packs Pursuit., what can you do? He runs a focus sash usually, so he won't exactly die. And his stats are placed right into speed and attack, he'll go first.

Nintendo set up a small amount of standards. Sleep clause, uber clause, freeze clause, item clause, species clause. They didn't say "No 2 600 pokemon on your team." It's perfectly legal to want to use two of the strongest pokemon in the game. Did you see Marriland on Youtube? One of his teams runs a Mence, Chomp, and T-tar. (Many competitive teams you see are going to be like that. Stronger pokemon will be used, you wanna use the others, try UU tier.) All you need is a Weavile, Starmie, or Gyrados to end all of his 3 sweepers. They're weak to the same thing. Ninte...Gamefreak I should say, isn't stupid. They know how to balance their game. If somebody wants to run all 3 dragons, metagross, and T-tar, so be it! They have no tanks then, and arn't gunna work to well. There is plenty of diversity in the OU tier. Like I said before, it doesn't take any of those guys to kill them. A powerful STAB attack at neutral damage can quite possibly do it also. If you run Spikes/Stealth rock, or Toxic/Burn, it takes even less damage. Sweepers arn't meant to stay around, they're killable.

On the topic of diversity, to the TC. Are we going to implement Evasion clause? No doubleteam/minimize? Because that ruins diversity, and makes the game luck based.

And now to both people on 'meeting halfway', the Item Clause, are we restriced to One of each item, or Two of each item? That makes a huge difference.

Anyway: By the time July 11th rolls around, the Metagame will be much more developed than it is now, and we'll all get a better understanding. Limiting the 600s isn't much of a big deal, they're replaceable. My Garchomp will apparently leave for a Heracross or an Electrivire or an Infernape or a Lucario or a Rhyperior or a Marowak or Weavile or Gyrados...lots of options. Running two guys that do the same thing has it's penalty. They are killed the same way, and share targets it can hit. You ruin your OWN diversity by using multiples.


Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:03 pm
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Hmm? Dragonite's special defense is just a little lower than bronzongs. I'll concede there are pokemon that can still fight dragonite, but still.

Putting Dragonite into a type disadvantage is a mistake by the player and doesn't count. Pulled in at the proper moment, he gets off 2 dragon dances. Life orb wasn't needed in this case. There's still big threats, but the one's you listed, not so much.

Also, no you didn't give examples of usefulness and let readers decide, you gave examples of why dragons are inferior to creselia

Now that I think about it, focus punch was probably changed from flinching to failing when hit, conceded again.

The regis are probably the most dangerous trio, and I'll concede that they very well may be more dangerous than any given 600statter.

My opinion was probably swayed from working with much weaker trios lately. Sorry about that.

Just to make sure we're clear on this, I never said any of the 600 stat guys were uber, Or should be banned.

I believe the limit is more to keep teams like, Salamance, Tyrannitar, Metagross, which do not share many weaknesses.

But now I'm 100% on board with you on the issue of trios and cresselia being allowed.


Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:15 pm
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I'd like to join

FC:

STEFAN (all caps)

1590 - 1384 - 2241

P.S. it will be set to 100 or 50 right?

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Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:00 pm
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Ok so far everyone that has posted and pmed me have been added well we have all 16 people ready for the tournament and was thinking of making it instead of 16...32 what you guys think
Also Mtg Xerxes it is not that I want a super competitive tourney(well I do but) it is most people can and know how to counter 600 stat pkmn it is just I want people to use different pkmn you know? Have more variety see new pkmn instead of the same ones you get me and also I agree with you 100% on the Double Team and Minimize I should have that rule...whoops I must of deleted it during one of the edits. Should be there now and thanks for your input. Another thing the items rule is only 1 of kind so your pkmn should all be holding different items. Sorry if this is an inconvience to you or anyone else.
Well thank you guys for keeping this thread alive :D and please more people are still welcome to join

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Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:37 pm
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FaceLess wrote:
Hmm? Dragonite's special defense is just a little lower than bronzongs. I'll concede there are pokemon that can still fight dragonite, but still.

Putting Dragonite into a type disadvantage is a mistake by the player and doesn't count. Pulled in at the proper moment, he gets off 2 dragon dances. Life orb wasn't needed in this case. There's still big threats, but the one's you listed, not so much.

Also, no you didn't give examples of usefulness and let readers decide, you gave examples of why dragons are inferior to creselia
Now that I think about it, focus punch was probably changed from flinching to failing when hit, conceded again.

The regis are probably the most dangerous trio, and I'll concede that they very well may be more dangerous than any given 600statter.
My opinion was probably swayed from working with much weaker trios lately. Sorry about that.

Just to make sure we're clear on this, I never said any of the 600 stat guys were uber, Or should be banned.

I believe the limit is more to keep teams like, Salamance, Tyrannitar, Metagross, which do not share many weaknesses.

But now I'm 100% on board with you on the issue of trios and cresselia being allowed.


Starting from the top: His Special defense. It is in fact 100, which is higher than I expected. However, it is usually not going to have a high IV, or any EVs, or a nature like Bronzong. Bronzong is an amazing tank. (Dragonite has at max (Neutral nature, No EVs) 236 special def. Bronzong with neutral nature and no EVs, has 268. Plus his typing is amazing, weak to only one thing, and steel resists a lot. With EVs and benifitting nature, 328 vs 364...but who wants to do that to Dragonite? his atk will suck) Unlike Cress/Regi(s), that 100 base stats in Sp. Def are not well placed stats. They belong in speed or something instead, that was something I failed to emphasize. oh well.

No, one wouldn't put their pokemon into a type dissadvantage. The opponent would put YOU int he disadvantage, he'll switch in the counter. I can see how that would cause some problems lol. And it's hard to get off 2 DDs unless one is on a switch. Though in that sence, you let ANYthing get off 2 DD or Sword Dance or whatever, you won't stop it either. Too late. The other pokemon I listed off, they are quite large threats, with a wider variety of movepool in many cases. But that's your opinion so I'm fine with that.

I guess I didn't really give an example. I just kinda stated they have amazing defs/HP and are equipped with moves that boost them and heal them, making them quite unstoppable as well. Just in the opposite way of a Sweeper. And I don't wanna say their inferior, I love the dragons, I just think that Cress and Regis (along with other tanks/walls) can be overlooked on power because they don't sweep in one hit. That doesn't mean they arn't godly.

The dragons and T-Tar all have crippling weaknesses, and it's shared. Ice will kill all of them, Fighting/ground (two other very popular types) will kill the T-tar. Metagross is a beast, we haven't even brought him up yet lol. However fire and ground beat him, (popular types) and he's slow so you have a chance to hit him with strong STAB and 2hko. NOthing wrong with a 2hko by any means. I guess all I was trying to say is that Cress/Regis are much harder to deal with and get around than sweepers. SUre they hurt, but they die much easier.
---
Think of this as well. It's 6v6. One of your pokemon is going to have to kill more than 1 of theirs to gain an advantage. Otherwize it gets down to 1v1 and who has the type/speed to win. For example Metagross: slow but powerful. Hit him with a strong STAB, lets say Surf. You surf him, then lets say he kills you. You're down one. Your next guy follows up with a strong STAB, lets say Thunderpunch. He dies. Neither was supereffective, and you're each down one. Mgross didn't give you an advantage in pokemon. Sure now you have innitiative with switching in a counter, but the opponent may have a move or can switch himself. At the point of when a given pokemon WILL give you an advantage of 2+ kills, (LIke, wobbafett for example) he is given the uber status. These guys have no gaurantee of an advantage. However technically, the same can be said for Cress/Regi(s), and it's hard to interpret their advantage. =/
---
Personally, I've been led to feel that T-tar is uber, because Sandstorm boosts special defense, putting his base stats over 600. However, others feel differently, and the main arguement behind that is his x4 fighting weakness. So if any of them should be booted out, I'd vote him.

Finally, the main reason I wanted to repost.... "I'm 100% with you on allowing them and Cress...." Uh oh. I DON'T want cress or regis, but alas I don't think that will end in my favor. I no longer use dual 600 statters, I used to run Dnite and Chomp but I swapped them out occasionally. I just know most teams run 2-3 commonly and was trying to stand up for them. It's not fair or fun if rules should prohibit ones team....though...I guess they shouldn't sign up then eh? lol
Phew. Okay. Now I think that's all over.

New audience: To the TC: 32 may be cool, if we get that many. 16 is fine, but I think it should be double elimination then, otherwize, we'll play at max 4 games, with most people just one or two? Not much of a tourney. Waiting a month with all the training and hype for a couple minutes....meh.
Evasion clause is agreed with you, that's good. Item clause, well....I'll manage. Somebody is gunna lose their leftovers I guess.

Alrighty! Now....just.....wait a month......=/


Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:03 pm
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Oh my god! I just noticed that there's a shiny Charizard for a prize! I'm sorry other competitors :twisted: but I'm not going to lose!

J/K, goodluck to everyone, this is going to be a very interesting and fun tourny. I hope i can learn a thing or two from it.

But thats not the reason to why I am posting, I might have a friend who will join. You might already know black jack? Yeah, because he's getting Wi-Fi before July. Sooooo, he might be able to do it. I'll talk to him, and get back to you on it.

:twisted: :twisted: That Charizard is MINE! :twisted: :twisted:

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Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:43 pm
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Heh, funny. I like the 2nd place prize best. I need items more than I need a shiny pokemon that I won't use at all. Even if it's my choice of shiny (can't tell) then all this breeding/trading would be worthless, so I still wouldn't use it..bummer!

How about first place picks which of the 5 prizes s/he likes, and 2nd picks next, and then on...Otherwize, I'm gunna have to forfiet the finals game =P 8-)


Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:05 pm
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how do u put ur trainer card on the posts?


Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:02 pm
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No need for that Mtg Xerxes if you take 1st place you can have the item you choose :D but a little confident huh already counting your self in ?
don't get me wrong i'm not saying you won't just stating what you posted :D

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Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:08 pm
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how do u put ur trainer card on ur post?


Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:14 pm
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Sure, just put me on the waiting list or whatever. I usually stay at pe2k, same username :)

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Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:36 pm
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hello?


Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:41 pm
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testing

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Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:25 pm
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A guys gotta be confident. If I don't think I have a shot then why should I bother? I would expect most people to be thinking they got this.
And if they don't think they do, chances are, they won't. Because people like me and the Charizard wanter are hungry for competition 8-)

It was also mostly more a bump than anything else, and to try to get more people to see it so we can do 32


Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:29 pm
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anyone want to battl? rlly bored

ASH 2277 3397 2140

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Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:41 pm
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can someone trade me a rhyperior or a dusknoir plz

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Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:45 pm
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I got both of those.

What you got? I'm loo.....heh heh. I can't say what I'm looking for on this thread. Nevermind. No deal! =P


Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:09 pm
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does anyon want to battl to train their team or anything?

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Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:21 am
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im gonna kill the competition but do we have to put the people were against on our pal pad.



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Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:15 pm
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Reopened.

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Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:43 am
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Finally, reopened!!!
Airman, I'm not sure if you remember, but I'd like to join; my stuff's at the bottom.
Thanks!

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Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:34 pm
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I wanna join. Name: TunK and fc is in the sig.

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Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:46 pm
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So.....does that mean the tournament hasn't happened yet and may still go on or what?

If it's still going on but hasn't happened yet.....let me know.


Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:52 am
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airman hasn't been on in a while... I wonder if he left to go on vacation?

EDIT: terrible news, airman's mother sold his laptop :(
What will become of the tournament now? We may never know... til the mods lock it :cry:

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Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:46 am
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