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Bug Catcher
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:21 pm
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Location: New Hampshire
Why does every act like Ice is the worst type before Grass,
and why is Aggron on UU instesd of BL?

I don't get that at all.
He has 180 base Def and 110 base Atk.
There are pokemon that have half of that on the BL tier.
And just because he's x4 weak to EQ doesn't mean that much.
He has the defenses to survive most EQs that aren't STABed and if he has Substitute, then he can get a hit in.
If you teach him Avalanche, he gets 5 more Supers for his typical moveset.

This should be BL:

Aggron@Leftovers
Careful/Adamant/Impish
252 ATK 252 DEF 6 HP
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Substitue/T-Wave
Avalanche/Double Edge

Sturdy seems better to me, but if you're using Double Edge, you're going to dish out a lot of damage, so Rock Head fixes you all up.
Not to mention, he has a GREAT movepool, just not the SpAtk to use 2/5ths of it.

As for Ice type, it's weak to Fighting, Rock, Steel, and Fire.
With a pokemon like Froslass, the weaknesses are overwhelming, and I can understand that.
But then a pokemon like Lapras, Glaceon, or Mammoswine.
Why are they bad? HailBlizz Glaceon seems valid to me; stats to keep it moving, Mirror coat for the lulz. Lapras can take out all of its Ice weaknesses, although Electric types and Grass Knot kill it.

My point is that all pokemon have their downsides.
Name a pokemon and you can find a "Fatal" flaw in it.
That's why we have teams. To cover the weakpoints.

I.E. Aero: Surf? OH $417
Salamance: Blizzard?! Oh, no, it's Icy Wind!1111 Immunna faint!
Your Precious Lucario? I'm ugly, but oh god, no EQ, the most commonly used (And only) ground type attack in the metagame!!!!111111


This is just my opinon though.

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Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:27 am
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Neither Grass or Ice is the worst type: Poison is. But Ice is a very bad type defensively because it has four weaknesses and three of them are to common moves. It's also weak against Stealth Rock, which hurt any Pokemon weak against Rock in Diamond/Pearl. In exchange, it has a single resistance to itself, and there's little reason to use an Ice type when A) Water has much better type match-ups and B) every Water Pokemon learns Ice Beam. I don't think there is a single OU Ice Pokemon in RS OR DP (other than Weavile, who is a popular lead Pokemon only).

As for Aggron, yeah, he has good Attack and Defense, but he is weak to Surf and 4x weak to Earthquake and Focus Punch. He doesn't have good SD and he isn't that fast, so it's pretty easy to take him down before he can cause much damage. He is outclassed by Skarmory as a physical wall and is outclassed by many faster OU Choice Banders as a sweeper, so that is why he has ended up in UU. Pokemon that are inferior to other Pokemon at doing their jobs go to UU, and Aggron's kind of sucky typing and bad Speed makes him disposable at the OU level.


Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:45 am
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Bug Catcher
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:21 pm
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Location: New Hampshire
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Frost wrote:
Neither Grass or Ice is the worst type: Poison is. But Ice is a very bad type defensively because it has four weaknesses and three of them are to common moves. It's also weak against Stealth Rock, which hurt any Pokemon weak against Rock in Diamond/Pearl. In exchange, it has a single resistance to itself, and there's little reason to use an Ice type when A) Water has much better type match-ups and B) every Water Pokemon learns Ice Beam. I don't think there is a single OU Ice Pokemon in RS OR DP (other than Weavile, who is a popular lead Pokemon only).

As for Aggron, yeah, he has good Attack and Defense, but he is weak to Surf and 4x weak to Earthquake and Focus Punch. He doesn't have good SD and he isn't that fast, so it's pretty easy to take him down before he can cause much damage. He is outclassed by Skarmory as a physical wall and is outclassed by many faster OU Choice Banders as a sweeper, so that is why he has ended up in UU. Pokemon that are inferior to other Pokemon at doing their jobs go to UU, and Aggron's kind of sucky typing and bad Speed makes him disposable at the OU level.


But that kind of thinking makes pokemon a game with essentially about 30 choices and all of them beat each other. That seems ridiculous to me.

Well, what about Lapras?
I think it belongs in BL, but it can hold its own against anything OU but Aero and it's groupies. It's defenses and HP give it the power to take a hit or 5 and it's SpAtk give more than enough bite to put that movepool to work.
BoltBeam and Surf cover a lot of types, and Confuse Ray is a wonderful move.
Destiny Bond Froslass has more speed than most pokes that can kill it. So it's a guaranteed kill.
Glaceon's not bad, neither is Walrein.

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Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:56 am
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Glowstick wrote:
But that kind of thinking makes pokemon a game with essentially about 30 choices and all of them beat each other. That seems ridiculous to me.


But that is also what COMPETITIVE battling is all about. If you're playing to win, you want to pick the Pokemon that do their jobs the best. That's not something I would really do myself, but many do have that mentality, especially on more "serious" competitive battling sites like Smogon.

Quote:
Well, what about Lapras? I think it belongs in BL, but it can hold its own against anything OU but Aero and it's groupies. It's defenses and HP give it the power to take a hit or 5.


Lapras is Borderline. Borderline means usable at the OU level, but not commonly used or quite good enough to be a team staple. As for "a hit or 5"? Certainly not in DP, where everybody is hitting harder by having higher Attack stats and using Choice Bands and Choice Specs.


Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:05 pm
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Pokemon Ranger
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:22 am
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Glowstick wrote:
But that kind of thinking makes pokemon a game with essentially about 30 choices and all of them beat each other. That seems ridiculous to me.

Well, what about Lapras?
I think it belongs in BL, but it can hold its own against anything OU but Aero and it's groupies. It's defenses and HP give it the power to take a hit or 5 and it's SpAtk give more than enough bite to put that movepool to work.
BoltBeam and Surf cover a lot of types, and Confuse Ray is a wonderful move.

^^Let me get this straight, it gets RAPED by other OU pals. Stealth rock takes %25 of its life, thus making impossible to run Sash sets.

Blissey can slow it down with TWave before it moves and wall it while BoltBeam variants can simply pull A CM and KO it with TBolt.

Starmie can switch in a Surf and pull a CM then fire a TBolt which would OHKO.

Raikou can switch in and fire a STAB TBolt before it moves and score a straight OHKO.

Lapras doesn't enjoy taking CB-boosted Stone-Edges from stuff like Gallades either.

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Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:18 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:13 am
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Frost wrote:
Glowstick wrote:
But that kind of thinking makes pokemon a game with essentially about 30 choices and all of them beat each other. That seems ridiculous to me.


But that is also what COMPETITIVE battling is all about. If you're playing to win, you want to pick the Pokemon that do their jobs the best. That's not something I would really do myself, but many do have that mentality, especially on more "serious" competitive battling sites like Smogon.


That's why I gave up on Wi-Fi and play w/ my 9 other friends who play DP

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Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:45 pm
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Lapras is pretty good IMO.

Modest @Sash
Surf/BoltBeam/Confuse Ray

Great for taking out pesky sweepers and reliable on it's own. It has great HP, and all of it's stats except Speed are good. Nice movepool, too.

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Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:59 am
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