What would be a good Pokemon to use as a Facader? EV's, Natures, and Items would be appreciated.

Swellow @ Toxic Orb
Adamant | ?????
252 atk, 252 spd, 4 ???
Facade
????
????
????

granbull also works pretty well, getting STAB from facade and some neat options to counter what needs to be countered:

Granbull@toxic orb
quick feet
jolly 252atk/252spd/6hp
facade
protect
close combat
crunch/fire fang

protect first turn to kick in toxic orb and start sweeping away. the only downside is that Granbull's speed might not reach levels where it can outspeed a lot of pokes even with quick feet. however, it has close combat and crunch to destroy incoming ghosts and steel/rock types that resist facade, fire fang is in there for mainly bronzong and (lol) skarm.

Swellow seems to be a much better choice for facading, but it's limited movepool prevents it from destroying its counters (swellow fails to skarmory, bronzong, steel types)

Try this guy:

Ursaring@Toxic orb
Guts (nature +ATK, - anything but speed)
252ATK,252SPD,6HP
Facade
///
///
///

I'm too lazy to look up the other moves right now, but just fill them in with phys attacks that have the most type coverage. You get the STAB and Guts bonus from facade, as well as the normal double attack. Swellow is another nice option, with same nature, spread and overall moveset. Swellow ends up faster, with less attack immunity to EQ, normal damage from fighting, and weakness to electric

I know this Combo effectively takes out foes in 1 hit if they are not resistant towards Facade but 1 huge flaw is that Ursaring is Slow. So to solve that Prob I came up with this Ursaring:
Nature: Jolly to be Safe or Adamant cos the Attack Bonus is a lot higher.
Ability: Quick Feet...ya that's right you've seen correctly...I didn't use an Ursaring with the Guts ability.
Item: Toxic Orb
Moves:

Swords Dance
Facade
Earthquake/Fire Punch/Ice Punch
Rock Slide/Shadow Claw/ Thunder Punch

As you can see, Ursaring's problem with Speed is Effectively taken care of and you will still do as much if not more damage than a Guts Ursaring. Here's an Example: Ursaring is Slower than most Pokemon and Toxic Orb takes a turn to activate right? Here's the battle plan...use Swords Dance first...you'll most likely get whacked before your Ursaring uses Swords Dance but don't worry...the next turn, Toxic Orb Activates and your Speed multiplies by 1.5 times. You'll most likely be faster than the foe then and you'll get to attack with Facade right after you used Swords Dance, all thanks to the Toxic orb and Quick Feet. The foe will most certainly be KOed and your boosted speed will allow you to Sweep through with Facade. There you have it...an Ultimate Build for Ursaring...an an Ultimate Facader that Ironically doesn't have Guts as an ability.

I'd like to note that for Guts users, Flame Orb is better than Toxic Orb because guts eliminates the attack cut, as well as not giving Toxic poisoning to the pokemon

I tried out using Swellow as a Facader, but its movepool got to me, like 4ever said. Now I know that Zangoose has the Isnomia ability, but would a Flame Orb work for it instead?

Can you also point out flaws in the Facade strategy? The only one I can see is that it is a normal-based move so its not super-effective against any particular type.

Not forgetting it doesn't work against Steel, Ghost and Rock type Pokemon...but that can be an advantage if u use it correctly....people will fear Facaders and so they will switch out to Pokemon with the above types...this is when clever planning and the correct moves come in...you know he's gonna switch...so you tell your Pokemon to use any Stat boosting move during that "Free" turn and the next you use something Super effective against the Type of pokemon that gets switched out...that's why Ursaring is such a wonderful Facader...it can learn Eartquake and Shadow Claw...moves that counter all the weaknesses of Normal type Attacks...the opponent will think that he evaded the facade combo...but he meets up with something worse...hehe.

Well, at 1.5 speed he's too slow to sweep. And since he doesn't have guts he won't be able to take on skarm, maybe night scizor, he can probably fight Forretress ok, but it won't really sweep. I mean people will just ko it, since it's slower than their sweeper.

That said I do like ideas like that, there are effective but deviate from what is expected, it's just not quite as ultimate as you'd think, it can be forced to switch out. All in all though, speed and power still go to swellow with guts.

its speed really doubles

Here are a couple Swellow sets; both are guts/flame orb:

Facade
U-turn
Pursuit/substitute
Aerial Ace/Brave bird

Okay, if you go with sub do that first. It lets your orb activate. Then sweep with Facade/AA,BB. Chose AA if you want the accuracy and BB if you don't care about the recoil and just want to do a lot of damage. You will have to remember with BB that you will recieve recoil+damage from burn, so be careful. U-turn away from anything you know you're not going to kill.

AA/BB
Facade
Rest
Sleep Talk

Sleep Talker set. Worth a shot, at least. Sweep untill your health is low, then try a rest/sleep talk. Bad point of this strat=she may be killed on the rest.

I once used a Breloom as a Facader... (be warned, it's not as good as a Facader because of lack of guts...
Breloom@ToxOrb (Poison Heal)
Spore
Focus Punch
Facade
Swords Dance
Standard Physweep EV Spread
Of course, Swellow is a LOT better at Facading..., but I just like this set for no good reason.

wow, a surprise facader, and I like it as well... with mammoth 130atk + swords dance + facade... man it gives me the chills.

quick feet only increases x1.5



protect is usually better in the 3rd spot (over subby) because you wouldn't start off with 1/4 HP whittled away and toxic damage. I've seen u-turn on swellow-facade sets but I'd rather let the bird die than switch out and have an ailing pokemon in my party (even if you have a cleric or not).

Does Lucario's endure-rev fall under this category? If not should I include one Facader and an endure-rev in my party?

Dang it, man!!! You guys are stealing my top secret sets!!! Brelooms new ability 'poison heal' restores HP every turn, like leftovers.

"""""-.-....I thought I explained so very clearly...this ursaring won't be slow because of Quick feet....also, Ursaring can learn something called fire Punch to take care of Skarmories you know....it basically is capable of learning moves that counter all of the other combos that break Facaders....that's y Ursaring is the Supreme facader if you use my Quick Feet combo....

FaceLess is saying, Ursaring's Spd x1.5 is STILL too slow.

Well...1.5 times brings it to about 331? Hmm...that's at least faster than most Pokemon...also considering the fact that the foe will be switching out quite often and so you get to strike when they switch...

Most of the top sweepers in the game will outspeed that bear and make him dead.

Well, it is better than a Guts Ursaring...and if you're talking about who is more Effective in battle Ursaring is definiely the one cos it doesn't get stop by Walls. Oh, and 1 calculation error I made...it's 343. not 331....beats some Gengars and owns Garchomps....if I'm not wrong this are some of the Top sweepers in the game? 343 is faster than 75% of all Pokemon if I'm not wrong...that's more than enough to kick a lot of Pokemon' butts.

Yes, but it's that 25% of Pokemon that outspeed it that are the ones that Ursaring fears. Choice Scarf variants of anything (Garchomp, Heracross) mean that the bear dies, faster Pokemon with large attack, such as Weavile also dish out the damage, and I don't think you have enough room for SDance / Fire Punch / EQ / Shadow Claw / Facade on one Pokemon so that the type coverage works.

I think Ursaring belongs on a Trick Room team with as low speed as possible. That way, you can have Guts > Quick Feet, and put those speed EVs somewhere where they are more useful (perhaps its mediocre defences?) Shove Wailord on there (the one that thekiller suggested in the Wailord topic) and you have a rather nice sweeping set.




Well, not really. Just switch to Skarm, and whirlwind it away. You lose your SD stat boost, or even if the opponent just brings in a physical wall / psych up / haze / something quick with Brick Break / Close Combat (Staraptor, Weavile?)




On the subject of Swellow, I find it works rather well, but is completely predictable. As soon as they see you use Protect (because the bird won't survive a single hit) then they switch to a Rock / Steel. My response is to predict it, and U Turn to something useful (and you can choose what to send out, because switching has priority over U Turn, allowing you to make the decision according to the Pokemon they send out.

Then bring out Swellow for a late game sweep. With Guts, Quick Attack is suprisingly formidable, and has swept a good three Pokemon that have received SRock damage from my Skarm's Whirlwind. It's a pretty neat combo, but you need a good electric if you fear a lightning move.

Well, a switch costs a turn...and Roar Always hits last..which means 2 turns for Ursaring to whack Skarmory with Fire Punch...will it survive? NO....and people don't usually give Choice Scarfs to Pokemon who already have high speeds cos it'll be more worth it to put the Scarf on slower Pokemon...I agree on the baton pass strategy however cos I'm using it too and I can tell you it's extremely hard to bring down when it's set up. I still don't like Facading Swellows however, cos they get stopped by 2 many Pokemon...However, if you don't intend on using strategies that take several turns to set up the Quick Feet Ursaring is the best choice cos it's abilities surpasses that of a guts Ursaring or a Swellow...

What's a good item to use for QF Ursaring, Flame or Toxic?

EDIT: Sorry I forgot this was a facader .

-coughs- i know the ultimate facader :]

it can last 4ever with its cosmic power and moonlight

HOORAY FOR CLAYDOL!

Claydol @ Flame Orb
Adamant | ????
EVs : 252 atk, 129 sp def, 129 def

Cosmic Power
Power Trick
Facade
Moonlight


Power Trick, then boost back up with Cosmic Power, and then you can Facade away with monstrous attack stats. Then when you get low on HP, Moonlight.