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 Tactics & Strategies 
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Pokemon Ranger
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I believe the outcome of many battles are determined by factors with different percentages....here's what I think after observing a number of battles...A battle often is determined by: Luck 40%, Pokemon 40% and Strategies & Tactics 20%....since we can't do anything about Luck and the Pokemon area (Moves, EVs, Type) has been covered so many times...I thought I would like to learn more about Tactics, Strategies, their effectiveness in battle and their counters. Please post your useful Strategies & Tactics and their counters if possible....I'll get the ball rolling... :)

I personally Love Baton Passing strategies as well as raising Pokemon stats using moves like Swords Dance and Endure Reversal Combos...Baton Passing combos ensure that the foe doesn't have a chance to hit back once it's set up but it's easily countered by Roars etc. and other Pokemon who use stat boosting moves...Pokemon with stat boosting moves are near invincible once they raised their stats high enough but they're again easily countered by Roars etc. and Sweepers with Super Effective attacks as these prevent the Pokemon from raising their stats high enough...Endure Reversal/Flail combos are very useful against pokemon that aren't resistant towards Reversal/Flail but they are countered by their banes...Ghost Types as well as Sandstorms and Hails.

Another of my favourite tactics is Mind Gaming....this involves tricking foes into believing something you're not going to do and turn tables in your Favor...a pretty evil tactic I would say... :twisted:

I would like to hear of interesting Trick Rooming tactics as well and how to counter them...does anyone have 1? :wink:


Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:03 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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One way to counter a trick room team is to waist time... when they send out something slow but strong....ie we'll go with machamp...ppl like to sweep with that one after setting up a trick room...the best way to stop it is to keep on switching in and out...and have someone know protect/detect....and a key to this is to FOCUS on how long trick room has been going on...the oppenent will most likely catch on by turn 2, so by that time it'll be a game of who can outwit who or have you protect/decter in...of course every great trick room team has TWO or THREE trick roomers, so when they send in the second round...they know what your gonna do this time...so this will be a huge game of whits...just whatever you do dont let the person they send in who's slow(fast now from trick room) sweep thanks to trick room...the main idea is to just waist their trick rooming time...lol that is one way i countered it...there are most likely better ways lol...well there's my opion


Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:03 am
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Ace Trainer
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Well there's a pretty standard strategy I tend to see in some good players. Now mind you they're also skilled with it so I can't say it's right for Everyone, but it looks interesting.

I mean it Shouldn't be as effect as it is.

It's straight forwardly this. Lead pokemon, generally Gyrados Intimidate weakens attack power which is harder to tank these days, and he can switch in and even block Some mixed sweeping, notably he's resistant to fire/fighting, which is generally how one gets around Steeltype/blissey.

It has taunt, if it needs to stop some sort of strategy, and dragon dance if the opponent is forced to switch.

They have a physical tank and a special tank, the special tank most often being blissey. A physical sweeper with a choice item and a special sweeper with a choice item. And a revenge killer, generally weavile.

The strategy generally goes, predict an attack, switch to the appropriate tank. Set up an advantage of some sort, like rocks or light screen, and/or wear down the disadvantaged attacker should it not switch out.

Every safe switch with the sweepers will put a dent in the opponent until you're forced to switch. That's simple and straight forward and requires prediction to be genuinely useful. The wearing down from the tanks and sweepers, if done well really hurts a team.

The revenge killer evens the field or maintains the advantage should one of your pokemon get taken out. I think battles have possible outcomes, your team should try and improve the ratio of win scenarios to lose scenarios. The rest is dependent on luck and the decisions of the players.

Sorry for getting carried away, I just thought that this battle model was really interesting>.>


Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:12 am
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Pokemon Ranger
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jamashawalker wrote:
One way to counter a trick room team is to waist time... when they send out something slow but strong....ie we'll go with machamp...ppl like to sweep with that one after setting up a trick room...the best way to stop it is to keep on switching in and out...and have someone know protect/detect....and a key to this is to FOCUS on how long trick room has been going on...the oppenent will most likely catch on by turn 2, so by that time it'll be a game of who can outwit who or have you protect/decter in...of course every great trick room team has TWO or THREE trick roomers, so when they send in the second round...they know what your gonna do this time...so this will be a huge game of whits...just whatever you do dont let the person they send in who's slow(fast now from trick room) sweep thanks to trick room...the main idea is to just waist their trick rooming time...lol that is one way i countered it...there are most likely better ways lol...well there's my opion


Won't this give the foe the advantage in a sense? I mean to switch out a Pokemon requires a turn....this gives the foe free turns to whack your Pokemon...and wasting their turns isn't going to help much when they have more than 1 Trick Roomer...it may be a lot easier to counter them before they set it up but anyone has any idea how to bring them to their knees when they already had it up and going? :?


Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:45 am
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Pokemon Ranger
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I think the best way to counter trick room is to send our an uber slow poke, like spiritomb or bronzong.

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Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:07 am
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i love the idea of messing with opponents mind that y i love darkrai so i double battle with a sleep team darkrai gengar gaurdevaur weavile skuntank and mismagios the whole point of this team is a bunch of stat problems with 2 sweepers to take the rest of the game weavile and skuntank


Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:58 am
Psychic Trainer
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"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu, the Art of War

Instead of putting 2 good walls, 2 good sweepers and 2 other pokemon a team should have at least something focused on. It doesn't have to be an all around plan like Hail teams or BP teams. It could only be focusing on a pokemon.

Lets say that you wanna use a DD outrage Draggy to late sweep for example. So what you need is to make some passive damage to hurt thing enough for Dragonite to OHKO them with outrage. Stealth rock, Spikes, and choice users that with hard on the switch would help to hurt their pokemon a little bit. You can also use a fire pokemon to get rid of those steels who might wall Dragonite, so you pick Scarf Heatran. Heatran can also switch on Weavilles who threath Draonite and Overheat hits everything good enough in the switch, even if resisted.

Or if you wanna focus on passive damage. Just use Hippo as a SR puttter and a SS bringer. Add a spiker and a toxic spiker in there, and dont forget a spin blocker like dusknoir. Put a roar Suicune to cause lots of damage. You can give a bit of originality by using a fake out + U turn life orb Ambipom.

What I do is just to pick a BL or UU pokemon, look at most of his counters and pick a pokemon to counter those, then look at the second pokemon counters and do the same, etc.

But remember, every team is as good as the person using it.

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Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:47 pm
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Pokemon Ranger
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Well said, I used to use a team with all sweeper Pokemon, that used give me lots of wins(WiFi BT).

For example you can use a Hitmonchan to beat a Medicham some way

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Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:21 pm
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Pokemon Ranger
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Just noting that everyone is completely ignoring Faceless's analysis, which is completely true.

The only thing I have trouble with is the last one, the revenge killer. Sure, sometimes it's a revenge killer, but other times it's replaced by another Choice Scarfer, a Mixed Sweeper, a Mixed Tank, a Spinner/Spiker (depending on what your tanks are).

Also, of course, sometimes the Choiced Physical sweeper is replaced by another DD'er or Agilgross or something of the like. Some people prefer Life Orbs on their Special Sweepers, largely due to the fact that BoltBeam covers every type thata Choiced might not be able to handle.


Of course, the only reason we have an OU list is both to seperate the good from the bad but to see which pokes you have to be on your guard against. Aside from that, OU and BL are almost identical.

Also, the most common "Mind Gamer" is ChainChomp, even though I've never seen one in battle >.>

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Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:22 pm
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I have to disagree with Bumi and with killer on these respective ideas That you should have your team focused around something, and that BL and OU are only seperated by how commonly used they are.

If your team is based around something, particularly one aspect or pokemon in the battle then your strategy is oversimplified. All teams focus around being effective and to say that a team should have something focused on before the fact is pushing it. The focus should be to be safe from dangerous combinations and produce combinations that are consistently useful.

Killer brings up the good point that the slots do vary but the general principle is the same, just tailored more specifically than I indicated to an individual teams needs and personal preference.

There's, I'd say, a difference in performance quite clearly between BL and OU pokemon. Pokemon people have offered check lists of what a good team needs to be able to handle and it's a list of things that really can sweep whole teams. Some of them were major OU pokemon, and some were generalizations. It is a concept different from an OU list and serves that mentioned function.


Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:40 pm
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Pokemon Ranger
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Well, what I mean is, yes, OU are better than BL. But this difference does not entirely exclude or even partially exclude in several ways.

Basically, OU and BL are divisions that were only created because of what pokes need to be countered. While there is a difference in power between BL and OU, a noticable one at that, OU does not mean better necessarily. Some OU lists are created by the name; overused. Others, however, are based only on stats. The best ones, however, are made by a combination of stats, ability, and movepool.

If I were to create such a list, it would not include how much each poke is used. However, no one in their right minds could say that the amount each poke is used influences their tier.

Many OU pokes need to be countered, but that does not necessarily mean that I need to counter every Slowbro or Machamp. It does mean, though, I'd be out of my mind without a counter to Tyranitar or Dragonite.

OU's official definition can be debated either way, and the reason for my above post is the definition I have taken from others, not the one in my mind.

And that isn't the only reason we have one, but it's a big one.

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Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:18 pm
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Whether or not it is a reason At all is subject to debate until somone old school battlers tells us how it began.


Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:23 pm
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Pokemon Ranger
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FaceLess wrote:
I have to disagree with Bumi and with killer on these respective ideas That you should have your team focused around something, and that BL and OU are only seperated by how commonly used they are.

If your team is based around something, particularly one aspect or pokemon in the battle then your strategy is oversimplified. All teams focus around being effective and to say that a team should have something focused on before the fact is pushing it. The focus should be to be safe from dangerous combinations and produce combinations that are consistently useful.

Killer brings up the good point that the slots do vary but the general principle is the same, just tailored more specifically than I indicated to an individual teams needs and personal preference.

There's, I'd say, a difference in performance quite clearly between BL and OU pokemon. Pokemon people have offered check lists of what a good team needs to be able to handle and it's a list of things that really can sweep whole teams. Some of them were major OU pokemon, and some were generalizations. It is a concept different from an OU list and serves that mentioned function.


If that's the case then what's the best number of things to focus on? What's the least number of counters you must have in your team to be safe? You may have a team that counters a lot of tactics and Strategies but these teams fall 2 easily when up against simple battles cos the opponent doesn't use any particular strategy....take for example the 6 sweeper combo...it's simple to use and it's quite effective too...especially against people who switch a lot...


Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:18 am
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Faceless wrote:
If your team is based around something, particularly one aspect or pokemon in the battle then your strategy is oversimplified.


Focusing on a plan is not oversimplifying when you build your team around the idea of potentializing something to make it more usable. Just like when you build your team to work as a hole instead of just 6 good individuals.

Faceless wrote:
All teams focus around being effective and to say that a team should have something focused on before the fact is pushing it.


Yes but the way you said a team works (something like, have 2-4 sweepers, some walls, and some support) can't constitute a good play by its own. Otherwise every random 6 Standards with good role coverage would win. What makes a good team is having all roles, but a great team is usually the one wich is designed so their members help each other.

Faceless wrote:
Every safe switch with the sweepers will put a dent in the opponent until you're forced to switch. That's simple and straight forward and requires prediction to be genuinely useful. The wearing down from the tanks and sweepers, if done well really hurts a team


Yeah, but thats pretty much a vague suggestion. Isn't that what every one does? It all becomes matter of who is better at predicting. If the first thing you see is a Metagross, many people respond by sending out their physical wall. By letting your actions be dictated by someone else, you are greatly weakened in the long run

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Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:34 pm
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Bumi wrote:
Faceless wrote:
If your team is based around something, particularly one aspect or pokemon in the battle then your strategy is oversimplified.


Focusing on a plan is not oversimplifying when you build your team around the idea of potentializing something to make it more usable. Just like when you build your team to work as a hole instead of just 6 good individuals.

Faceless wrote:
All teams focus around being effective and to say that a team should have something focused on before the fact is pushing it.


Yes but the way you said a team works (something like, have 2-4 sweepers, some walls, and some support) can't constitute a good play by its own. Otherwise every random 6 Standards with good role coverage would win. What makes a good team is having all roles, but a great team is usually the one wich is designed so their members help each other.

Faceless wrote:
Every safe switch with the sweepers will put a dent in the opponent until you're forced to switch. That's simple and straight forward and requires prediction to be genuinely useful. The wearing down from the tanks and sweepers, if done well really hurts a team


Yeah, but thats pretty much a vague suggestion. Isn't that what every one does? It all becomes matter of who is better at predicting. If the first thing you see is a Metagross, many people respond by sending out their physical wall. By letting your actions be dictated by someone else, you are greatly weakened in the long run
Ok, I don't think you're quite getting me, but it's really close.

I never recommend 2-4 sweepers, ever. Being able to stop a strategy is not defeated by a straight forward team. Particularly because if the 'straight forward team' must be simple and therefore be unable to stop as many strategies, or use as many forms of attack since your argument is they must be less complex than the team concept I proposed.

You can have any theme you want in a team, that's not what makes it good though. What makes it good is the part where you collected the counters for your counters. It's making it flexible that makes it good, not the fact it has a theme. I'm submitting that the theme is unnecessarily limiting, since that's not what made the team good in the first place.

You're right on the vague comment, but it's Exactly what everyone does. That's the focus of many battles, the more frequently your switches are safe and the more dangerous you can make the switches for your opponent the greater your advantage. I don't think the essence of battle or a strong team needs a theme in there. It might help, but it's backwards to make it a requirement.


Last edited by FaceLess on Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:45 am
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Dragon Tamer
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I think the best thing to do is have a strategy, but don't make your team dependant on it. My team functions well with Sunny Day, and is partially a Sunny Day team. But none of the members need Sunny Day to function well, save Shedinja, who really just needs the clear weather and not the sun itself.


Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:44 pm
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