I want an Electivire in my Diamond, but am having trouble with movesets.

@???
-Thunderpunch
-Cross Chop/EQ/Fire Punch/Ice Punch/Quick Attack
-Cross Chop/EQ/Fire Punch/Ice Punch/Quick Attack
-Cross Chop/EQ/Fire Punch/Ice Punch/Quick Attack

I have 5 moves to pick for 3 slots... What should I do?

Obsidian Wolf Suggested:
@Expert Belt
252 Atk 252Spd
Jolly/Adamant

Thunder Punch
Ice Punch
Cross Chop
EQ

Which I like, except for the expert belt, as I think 10% could be outclassed by other items (maybe a focus sash for EQing sweepers?)

Roar of Time said:
@Life Orb/Expert Belt
Mild
252 SPD 76 ATK 180 SP ATK/ 129 ATK 129 SP ATK 252 SPD

T-Bolt/T-Punch
Flamethrower
HP Ice/Ice Punch
Cross Chop

Sword of Destiny said:
@ Expert Belt/Life Orb
Mild/Modest
252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
~Thunderbolt
~Flamethrower
~HP Ice/Psychic
~Cross Chop/Focus Blast (Cross Chop for Blissey)

I'd go for the most coverage:

Electivire@Expert Belt
252 Atk 252Spd
Jolly/Adamant

Thunder Punch
Ice Punch
Cross Chop
EQ

With the physical BoltBeam set, only Magnezone and Lanturn resist you, which are both decimated by EQ, while Cross Chop takes out any Magnet Rising Magnezones. Expert Belt might give you the small boost that you need to take out a Pokemon that would just survive.

Ideally, you want to activate that Motor Drive, so Quick Attack isn't really all that necessary in my opinion.

Earthquake and Ice Punch hit those Steel and Grass types respectively which makes Fire Punch redundant. The only real pointer it has is it's ability to screw over Forretress and Scizor, which can both be disposed of by a Special Sweeper with a powerful fire move or any STAB attack that they don't resist.

Here...

@Life Orb/Expert Belt
Jolly/Adamant
252 ATK 252 SPD 6 HP
T-Punch
EQ
Ice Punch
Cross Chop/Brick Break

Physical Moveset

Mixed Attacker...

@Life Orb/Expert Belt
Mild
252 SPD 76 ATK 180 SP ATK/ 129 ATK 129 SP ATK 252 SPD
T-Bolt/T-Punch
Flamethrower
HP Ice/Ice Punch
Cross Chop

RoT, what are the advantages of such a set. Why go mixed when I could go pure physical?

For diversity. If the opponent sees you sweeping their Pokemon away with physical attacks, then they'll just bring out something to wall you...like Forry.

With a mixed Electivire, you get the benefit of taking out specialised walls (such as the good Bagworm Pokemon itself) with stuff like Flamethrower.

I see. I like that. I will add it to the first post.

From what I'm seeing in a mixed build Electrivire has less EVs to spend in its Attack and Speed...u need to max out Electrivire's Sp. Atk in order for it's Thunderbolt to work Almost as Good as a Thunder Punch...why is it so Important to get a Counter for physical walls when a Physical Sweeping Electrivire gets to attack at least twice B4 the walls even move? Don't get it? here's an example...a list of common Physical Walls are:

The 3 Regies, Metagross, Bronzong, Skarmory, Steelix, Scizor, Rhyperior, Swampert, Slowbro, Suicune, Tangrowth, Togekiss, Dusknoir, Donphan, Cresselia, Hippowdon and Forretress.

An Electrivire with maxed Speed is faster than any of them and a switch requires a turn.....this means that Electrivire gets to attack Twice B4 the Walls react....with Earthquake, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch and Ice Punch you counter almost all of the walls here...save Swampert and Cresselia...do you really need to get a Special move and reduce EVs in Attack and Speed so that you can put those EVs in Sp. Atk? The Walls would most likey faint in 3 Turns...and 2 of those turns are already done when the Opponent switched....they only get to attack Electrivire once B4 they faint...I think it's very worthwhile to just keep Electrivire as a Physical sweeper cos we don't have a lot of EVs to spare.

Not all three Regis are physical walls. Regice is certainly not a physical wall. (Crosschop = Broken Ice)

But take my first example, Forretress:

With 126 EVs into Thunderpunch and a +Atk Nature, you get this:

Forretress: 23.16% - 27.40%

Now, take that same Electivire with 126 Spatk and a Neutral Flamethrower...

Forretress: 117.23% - 137.85%

This is a nuisance, I have to go out, I'll strengthen my argument later. Be back soon.

Ok, so what about special movesets?

A special moveset would be like this:

Electivire @ Expert Belt/Life Orb
Mild/Modest
252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
~Thunderbolt
~Flamethrower
~HP Ice/Psychic
~Cross Chop/Focus Blast

Thunderbolt for STAB, Flamethrower for steels and heracross and HP Ice for dragons and grounds or if you can't get it go with psychic for weezing and machamp. For the last slot i'd say go with cross chop and mild nature to harm blissey more, but if you prefer all special moves, go with focus blast and modest nature.

I like to present a different set, and no it doesn't include cross chop.

Electivire@expert belt/life orb
motor drive
adamant 252atk/252spd/6hp
meditate
low kick
thunderpunch
ice punch

boltbeam-punches ftw. after a meditate, low kick will be a guaranteed 2HKO to a blissey, even after leftovers recovery. ice punch deals with ground types that normally make an electric-types cry, and thunderpunch is great STAB coming off of boosted attack.

As with most, if not all, Electivires, switching into an electric move is key. Switch into a T-bolt/T-wave, meditate on the switch (or survive the next hit) and sweep accordingly.

Since this E-vire lacks a fourth move and thus, less type coverage, life orb would be more viable over expert belt in this case. It delivers a higher damage boost and isn't dependent upon super-effectiveness.

I was gonna post this as well... I just thought of another set.... Don't kill me please...

@Choice Band
Adamant 252ATK 252 SPD 6 HP
Ice Punch
Brick Break/Cross Chop
T-Punch
Fire Punch

I was thinking about this since E-Trive is strong, so I was thinking how about you get a G-Dos or anything water or anything weak to Electric and you switch it out and get a nice speed boost. C-Band may limit it but it'll deliver powerful hits.

It would seem that it would be better to have @ Life Orb/Expert Belt if you're trying for Gyarados --> Electivire to get Motor Drive. Otherwise they can just switch in a type counter to your chosen attack, and they'll be less likely to use an electric attack on your Gyarados again.

Lol y use Thunder Punch when u can use Fire Punch? My point is, Electrivire has enough type coverage along with attack power to take out physical walls not with raw power but with the super effective bonus. Like I said, it counters most of the Walls easily so it doesn't really matter whether it is walled or not cos all walls will break when they're hit by something supereffective that's fired from a Pokemon with high Attack or Sp. Atk stats. Also, Regice has Impressive Defense stats so it qualifies as a Physical Wall.

if you go with fire punch on electivire, you will lose either cross chop/low kick or earthquake, which is something not many are willing to do.

Also, fire punch does fail to 1HKO forretress:

Electivire max +Attack holding Life Orb using Fire Punch on Forretress max HP/+Defense: 74.29% - 87.29%



Also, Regice has 80 base HP/100 base defense IIRC. not impressive at all, plus it has weaknesses to fighting and rock, two common physical types = not a physical wall.

Why have Meditate+Low Kick when you could have Cross Chop + 4th Move?

low kick has many advantages over cross chop:

For those who are extremely lazy to breed for egg moves, low kick is accessible through leveling up, whereas with cross chop you have to breed with a male machop/machoke/machamp.

Low kick has superior accuracy and PP over cross chop.

Low kick actually deals more damage to the likes of Tyranitar, Snorlax, Rhyperior and Mamoswine, amongst many others. Low kick sports a 120 BP against them versus a 100 BP (and 80% accuracy) of cross chop.

Low kick does fail to Blissey (and to a lesser extent, Porygon-Z), sporting a 60 BP. But after a meditate, it will be a guaranteed 2HKO against any Blissey (barring CharmBliss) and 2HKO Porygon-Z with or without any boosts.

EDIT: I realize that you have to breed in meditate, but the other points are still valid.

You might as well give it Brick Break then, which does not require breeding and has 100% acc compared to Cross Chop's 80%. (You can buy Brick Break TMs in FRLG and DP)


And 200 SpD

Concentrating on 1 tech tree or way of Sweeping usually works better in Overall performaces....you can't go worrying too much about Special Walls when you're playing a Special Sweeper or Physical Walls when you playing a Physical Sweeper...yes you may be able to counter both of these kinds of Walls if you play a mixed sweeping Electrivire but you won't be able to sweep as well as an Electrivire who concentrates purely on Physical sweeping. Reason is simple, Electrivire's attack is a lot higher than it's Special Attack and if you chose to place EVs in attack then you should make full use of it. Also saying Regice isn't a wall because of Cross Chop is knida redundant don't u think? I mean like I said walls aren't walls when hit by Supereffective attacks from a Pokemon with high attack stats.....if you say Regice is broken Ice against Cross Chop than I can say that Metagross isn't a wall because there is something called Earthquake or Flare Blitz. Also using a mixed sweeper means that you won't stand much of a chance against Pokemon like Aerodactly cos you won't be able to take it out in 1 hit reason being Thunderbolt doesn't deal enough damage as Electrivire's Sp. Atk isn't that high. There are plenty more of situations like this when you compare it with situations where Electrivire is "Walled" and is in trouble because it doesn't have a Special move. Which is more important? Not getting walled against the few who can wall Electrivire all doing must be 1HKOs against opponents that otherwise would take out your Electrivire?

But that's pure hypocrisy. Surely, if you can hit both sides of the spectrum, you are able to score more hits on more things. Take something like...Skarmory. Fire Punch will do considerably less than Flamethrower. However, you could then take something like Blissey and turn it on its head; Focus Blast will do considerably less than Cross Chop. By having both on your set, you counter both of them. By having both Physical and Special moves on Electivire, you aren't walled by things that are moderately good in just one defence stat.




No, because you should never put an attack contrary to its attack stat because of the base stat of them...coughTyraniboah?



No, I'm saying that Regice isn't a Physical Wall because it has a Special Defence stat that vastly outstrips that. And you are entirely wrong; hit Regice with a STABbed Fire special attack, and it can survive and dish a bit of damage back, or perhaps Restalks. Oh, and Metagross is not a wall anyway, it's most used as a bulky attacker. Having a weakness to the most used move in the game doesn't help a supposed 'wall.' (EQ)



Things that take out Electivire are still going to take it out whether it has an all out physical moveset, or a mixed one. Anyway, the things that you can OHKO with Electivire are still OHKOable, mostly. ThunderPunch is still going to screw over most fast water types, and still only 2HKO the bulkier ones; mixed or physical EV spread will not change that.

And I'd say it's rather useful not to be walled by the few things that do wall it; think what a godsend it would be to PorygonZ if Blissey wasn't an issue for it. Electivire, when taking advantage of that useful ability of his, doesn't need to fear its common physical wall friends who stop his physical rampage; you get a Speed boost, and then the opponent brings out Skarmory; are you really going to want to switch and lose that valuable boost (and your GyaraVire-esque combo surprise) or would you rather catch it off guard and allow your physical side of the team to run riot against a physical-wall-less team?

Go go MixedVire!

^I agree with Obs...

Sapphirath i'm not questioning your knowledge about pokemon or battling, but you seem to completely ignore this kind of strategy, as you said the exact same things in the "Infernape" thread.

I agree that a mixed sweeper doesn't have as high stats as a pure-physical or pure-special one, but the damage you cause to the opposing pokemon isn't calculated solely using YOUR pokemon stats. It's calculated using the foe's defenses as well. So, it's very useful to be able to set up and blast through your opponent's team without having to worry about an incoming skarmory or blissey or whatever.
After all, if your mixed-sweeper fails to do what what it's supposed to (take out all the walls and kill a few other pokemon that might get in it's way), you have other pokemon to back your team up. That's the purpose of having a team that consists of 6 pokemon and not just 1.

Since Sapphirath directly quoted me, I'll join in the fun I guess:

Electivire's attack may be much higher than its special attack, but at base 95, having the same special attack as tyranitar, it can easily eliminate its counters with ease.

Metagross isn't a wall.

Let's look at some numbers with T-bolt @129spAtk EVs, neutral nature:

vs. Aerodactyl 6HP/0spDef: 123.84% - 145.36%

Certainly in real-battle conditions, thunderbolt will be a 2HKO -- in sandstorm. And Aerodactyl can live through one thunderbolt and KO it back with earthquake. However, just as common as sandstorm is stealth rock, taking a good 25% out of Aerodactyl, making not thunderbolt, but Ice Punch a sure knockout:

Electivire, 129EV +Attack nature using Ice Punch on 6HP/0def Aerodactyl: 97.35% - 114.57%

[quote=Sapphirath"]Concentrating on 1 tech tree or way of Sweeping usually works better in Overall performaces....you can't go worrying too much about Special Walls when you're playing a Special Sweeper or Physical Walls when you playing a Physical Sweeper...yes you may be able to counter both of these kinds of Walls if you play a mixed sweeping Electrivire but you won't be able to sweep as well as an Electrivire who concentrates purely on Physical sweeping.[/quote]

....but noooooooooo, Take TyraniBoah, it destroys both Blissey and Skamory and some other walls with no EVs in ATK, also damage like SOD said is also calculated through the defenses

I've said this before and I'll say it again, there aren't many walls out there who can wall Electrivire and there are a lot of other Pokemon who usually get 1HKOed by a Thunder Punch but don't get 1HKOed by a Thunderbolt. Examples include typical Charizards, Aerodactyls, Milotics, Togekisses, Vaporeons, Articunoes, Moltreses...etc. And tell me, what do you expect to counter using Thunderbolt? Skarmory gets KOed only in two turns whether it's Thunderbolt or Thunderpunch so it doesn't really matter, for other Pokemon with high Defense you can easily KO with a Supereffective attack...no one told you to have your Electrivire use Thunderbolt on a Metagross when your Electrivire knows Earthquake. I do not detest the existence of Mixed sweepers and neither do I have any grudge against them. It's just that the price and result that you get for teaching Thunderbolt instead of Thunder Punch simply isn't worth it. For the sake of countering a few walls you give up the ability to KO a lot of Pokemon in 1 hit, a price too costly for a sweeper. After doing some research and trying out I figured that Flamethrower works better than Fire Punch for an Electrivire because Flamethrower pays off more...but for Thunder Punch and Thunderbolt, Thunder Punch pays off more.

You see my Mind isn't that straight that I always think that Pokemon with High attacks should only learn physical moves. It's a matter of which one is more worth it. You may think that countering walls is more important so you prefer Thunderbolt over Thunder Punch but my priority is taking out as many Pokemon as possible and dealing as much damage as I can. Thus the different Choices. I won't be crying when my Electrivire gets walled (By whom?) simply because I can switch it out without much harm but you'll be crying when Electrivire faces a Sweeper it can't take out in 1 hit and has to switch all risk fainting. Know why? Sweepers gain a whole lot of advantage when you switch because of the free turn and you won't like it when the Pokemon you just swicthed out gets blasted by something super effective and if the Pokemon you switched out was slower than the opponent than good luck cos the pokemon you switched out will definitely get blasted again. That's 2 hits before the Pokemon you switched out to protect Electrivire can actually attack. Worth it? NO. You see switching in on walls usually doesn't hurt as much as switching in on Sweepers. Imagine switching in on a Togekiss....whoa that's gonna hurt a lot....thankfully this can be avoided if you teach Thunderpunch instead of Thunderbolt. Turns is what sweepers simply CANNOT spare. If you say you teach Thunderbolt so that you can counter a few walls then I can say this: I teach Thunderpunch because I don't want to risk getting owned by a Togekiss etc.
To decide on what to teach a Pokemon you don't just think of what Pokemon that particular move can counter or what strategy it can be used for. You have to consider a lot of different situations such as moves, who attacks first, who or what this Pokemon is afraid of, what other pokemon in your team can back this up, what can you do if this or that thing happens...etc. before you finally decide on whether a move is worthwhile or not. That's why they have stuff like the damage calculator or attack type analyser and even then I feel it's not enough. Imagining the battlefield and working out your strategy against an Imaginary opponent needs to be done too....imagine the different situations that can happen and only after all these can you be sure on whether a move is worthwhile or not.

Do I sound like I'm preaching? Lol I know it's boring but I hope you guys realise battling is a lot more complicated then you think it is.