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 Indirect Damage Dusclops 
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Ace Trainer
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Tell me if I whould continue researching this Dusclops set, because it's a great idea, but there may be some things I';d have to change. I'm hoping this will be the one I use my Reaper Cloth on, cuz I'm not wasting it.
{dusclops} + Leftovers
Impish - Pressure
129 Def 129 SpDef 252 HP
Substitute
Curse
Pain Split
WOW/Toxic/Confuse Ray/Focus Punch

Turn 1
Use Sub (3/4 HP remains)
Turn 2
Use Curse (1/4 HP remains)
Turn 3
Use Pain Split (up to 3/4 HP is recovered) Here's where I find tiny problems. Pain Split doesn't always fully restore Dusclops' HP unless I use it on a Pokemon with a large amount, so should I move the HP EVs into Def or SpDef instead?

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Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:06 pm
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I wish I had another reaper cloth

The problem with this set is that if you are getting attacked at any point before the painsplit the plan fails

Hp evs greatly increase the amount of damage you can handle, which creates more options. From everything I've seen and experienced, it seems like more than a worthy trade.

Personally though, I use sub all the time. So I'm gonna be biased real quick and say I like the idea of using it.


Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:36 pm
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Yes, while Dusclops will take a couple of hits between the Sub and the Pain Split, most times the attacks do enough damage to actually benefit the Pain Split.
During testing, there were a few times where 'Clops had around 1 HP remaining when he used Pain Split.
So, many times the enemy will unwittingly help this strategy.

What I'm wondering is.. Will lowering the base HP increase the amount of HP Dusclops recovers after using the Split because it's significantly lower than the enemy's? If so Would a HP IV of 0 further increase the success of this strategy?

Originally this was a Blissey counter, but it works on everything else as well.

PS--- I would put Mean look in the mix, but I'm actually hoping for switches. Thanks to Pain Split, no fresh Pokemon with full-HP is safe.. (insert evil laugh here) :twisted:

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Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:32 pm
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MissingNo_Is_My_Friend wrote:
Will lowering the base HP increase the amount of HP Dusclops recovers after using the Split because it's significantly lower than the enemy's? If so Would a HP IV of 0 further increase the success of this strategy?

Using Pain Split with lower HP will actually decrease the amount recovered, because it sets both pokemon's HP to (your HP + opp's HP) / 2 . However, it should increase the % of HP recovered.

However, because Dusclops has high Def and SpD and low HP, EVing Def and SpD will increase the stat by a lower % then if you max EVed HP and therefore increase the % damage taken. You should run some damage calculations, see how much damage Dusclops would take with different EV spreads. If you're taking more than 1/4 per turn, you won't be able to Sub+Curse+Pain Split because you'll die on the Pain Split turn unless you're faster.

Keep in mind the lower the opponent's HP, the less effective the strategy will be because you will recover less HP.

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Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:03 am
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May I ask, why not Dusknoir?

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Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:32 am
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I want to know if this set will work better than the standard for Dusknoir. If it fails, I don't want to waste my Reaper Cloth.

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Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:20 pm
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MissingNo_Is_My_Friend wrote:
Yes, while Dusclops will take a couple of hits between the Sub and the Pain Split, most times the attacks do enough damage to actually benefit the Pain Split.
During testing, there were a few times where 'Clops had around 1 HP remaining when he used Pain Split.
So, many times the enemy will unwittingly help this strategy.

What I'm wondering is.. Will lowering the base HP increase the amount of HP Dusclops recovers after using the Split because it's significantly lower than the enemy's? If so Would a HP IV of 0 further increase the success of this strategy?

Originally this was a Blissey counter, but it works on everything else as well.

PS--- I would put Mean look in the mix, but I'm actually hoping for switches. Thanks to Pain Split, no fresh Pokemon with full-HP is safe.. (insert evil laugh here) :twisted:

That's not exactly right, The correct answer is that you'd have more hp and so would your opponent after a painsplit if you had hp evs.

Since the amount of hp the opponent loses is smaller, so is the amount you recover.


Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:09 pm
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The other biggest problem with this set is that they can just switch out after they're cursed, which essentially wastes half your HP. Sure that lets you get a Sub or Pain Split in, but it still might work against you.

My vote goes to Focus Punch in the last slot, could work as a sub-puncher. I guess next would be Toxic.

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Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:16 pm
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thekiller0703 wrote:
The other biggest problem with this set is that they can just switch out after they're cursed, which essentially wastes half your HP. Sure that lets you get a Sub or Pain Split in, but it still might work against you.

My vote goes to Focus Punch in the last slot, could work as a sub-puncher. I guess next would be Toxic.


It gives the opponent a false sense of security.

Using Curse to force switches scout all of the enemy's team would is a great plan. Even if Clops does get KOd, it's still a great advantage to know the enemy team and start them off with reduced HP.

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Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:27 am
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MissingNo_Is_My_Friend wrote:
thekiller0703 wrote:
The other biggest problem with this set is that they can just switch out after they're cursed, which essentially wastes half your HP. Sure that lets you get a Sub or Pain Split in, but it still might work against you.

My vote goes to Focus Punch in the last slot, could work as a sub-puncher. I guess next would be Toxic.


It gives the opponent a false sense of security.

Using Curse to force switches scout all of the enemy's team would is a great plan. Even if Clops does get KOd, it's still a great advantage to know the enemy team and start them off with reduced HP.

True, it's an advantage, but you're down 1 pokemon ...if the main thing you will accomplish is forced switches and some damage from Pain Split/Curse, you might as well get Stealth Rock + Whirlwind/Roar...which usually is a safer option for the pokemon.

But if you really want the strategy, try it on Shoddy - no waste of Reaper Cloth, TMs, or even time for training.

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Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:15 pm
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Sion9 wrote:
MissingNo_Is_My_Friend wrote:
thekiller0703 wrote:
The other biggest problem with this set is that they can just switch out after they're cursed, which essentially wastes half your HP. Sure that lets you get a Sub or Pain Split in, but it still might work against you.

My vote goes to Focus Punch in the last slot, could work as a sub-puncher. I guess next would be Toxic.


It gives the opponent a false sense of security.

Using Curse to force switches scout all of the enemy's team would is a great plan. Even if Clops does get KOd, it's still a great advantage to know the enemy team and start them off with reduced HP.

True, it's an advantage, but you're down 1 pokemon ...if the main thing you will accomplish is forced switches and some damage from Pain Split/Curse, you might as well get Stealth Rock + Whirlwind/Roar...which usually is a safer option for the pokemon.

But if you really want the strategy, try it on Shoddy - no waste of Reaper Cloth, TMs, or even time for training.


.....Or.... Curse/Pain Split in conjunction with Stealth Rock/Spikes would make for an even better chance of victory.

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Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:16 pm
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Quote:


.....Or.... Curse/Pain Split in conjunction with Stealth Rock/Spikes would make for an even better chance of victory.


No, because then you're wasting two Pokemon in your team and that leaves you with four to try and take out a team of six weakened Pokemon. I don't need to say it, but high attack and scarfed Pokemon / high speed banded Pokemon like Garchomp and Aerodactyl respectively won't care about their whittled HP, so long as they can sweep the last four Pokemon away.

It sounds gimmicky, and could probably work on the unsuspecting opponent. I just don't see why you listed Duclops instead of Dusknoir. Yes, I know that you don't want to waste your Dusknoir, but it isn't like typing 'noir' is going to evolve your 'clops, is it? That's like me making a topic called Roselia Discussion, because I don't want to use my Light Stone. :P

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Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:55 am
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Why does everybody keep asking that!?
Dusclops' and Dusknoir's base defenses each have a difference of 5 points. :shock: That's somewhere around 15 stat points. Big whoop. They still have the same type, horrible ability, and movepool. Oh wait. Dusknoir can learn Focus Blast.

This could be an alternate to the usual Dusknoir set, for those who already used the Reaper Cloth.
That would qualify as a Dusclops set then, right?

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Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:16 am
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MissingNo_Is_My_Friend wrote:
Why does everybody keep asking that!?
Dusclops' and Dusknoir's base defenses each have a difference of 5 points. :shock: That's somewhere around 15 stat points. Big whoop. They still have the same type, horrible ability, and movepool. Oh wait. Dusknoir can learn Focus Blast.


Each of its defences have a five point difference, yes, it also has a difference in HP (just five points) but also has 30 points more in Attack.

Quote:

This could be an alternate to the usual Dusknoir set, for those who already used the Reaper Cloth.
That would qualify as a Dusclops set then, right?


...if you're planning on using something competitively, then surely you must have wifi, right? If you have wifi, then you can get another Reaper Cloth, simple as. There are plenty of noobs on serebii that you can offer a ZOMG DIALGA?!?!?!? for a Reaper Cloth.

Also, why would you use an inferior Pokemon simply for the fact that you don't currently have the resources to make it better? I know, let's use Growlithe because I haven't got a Fire Stone.

And besides, if you can't get another Dusknoir, train a spiritomb instead. If you're 'forced' to use Dusclops, you may as well use Spiritomb, seeing as it's better than Dusclops.

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Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:44 am
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MissingNo_Is_My_Friend wrote:
Tell me if I whould continue researching this Dusclops set, because it's a great idea, but there may be some things I';d have to change. I'm hoping this will be the one I use my Reaper Cloth on, cuz I'm not wasting it.
{dusclops} + Leftovers
Impish - Pressure
129 Def 129 SpDef 252 HP
Substitute
Curse
Pain Split
WOW/Toxic/Confuse Ray/Focus Punch

Turn 1
Use Sub (3/4 HP remains) Get's destroyed the moment it's set up. It practically does NOTHING save waste 1/4 of Dusclops's Hp.
Turn 2
Use Curse (1/4 HP remains) Ya 1/4 Hp left. The foe Will blast you that turn you know. With 1/4 Hp left you can't expect him to survive this turn.
Turn 3
Use Pain Split (up to 3/4 HP is recovered) Here's where I find tiny problems. Pain Split doesn't always fully restore Dusclops' HP unless I use it on a Pokemon with a large amount, so should I move the HP EVs into Def or SpDef instead? Here's the prob. Dusclops is Slow. you won't be able to use Pain Split in time.


Always take note that turns are something to consider before you create a Moveset. :wink:


Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:03 pm
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The set i use is similar.

Dusknoir@lefties
252 HP, 129Def, 129SpDef
Pain Split
WoW
Curse
Shadow Sneak

Simple enough to use. First turn WoW and take a hit and then decide what to do after that. Pain Split on something switching in or curse and lower your health down further. The thing i find is it is easier if you see pain split as a damage move, not as a recovery. The lower your health is the more damage you will do and then passive damage will do the rest. Shadow sneak is really good for picking off weakened opponents.

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Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:28 am
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