Attention all members of Psypokes! OutaThingsToSay and I are holding a challenge to test your team building skills! You come up with a 6-pokemon team, and we will see if we can create a 3-or-less pokemon team to defeat it. (This isn't to show off, it is to help people build strong teams. WE DO NOT RATE TEAMS, WE SIMPLY CREATE WAYS TO DEFEAT TEAMS BASED ON TYPE WEAKNESSES, RESISTANCES AND IMMUNITIES.)



Rules:
1) No two (or more) pokemon of the same type. (Ex. You can't have two Torterras)
2) NO HACKED POKEMON! This means no legendaries not released in North America.
3) The following pokemon CANNOT be in a team you submit:

Note: Manaphy IS allowed because you CAN get it legitimately.



Posting:
Post the pokemon in your team (obviously) along with their ability. Moves, natures, stats, IVs, and items are not needed.

Our response will be a 3-pokemon team (or less, if 3 pokemon are not necessary) complete with moveset. If you do come up with a team to stump us, we will create a team that can beat your team.



End result:
If you win, you will receive our congratulations along with a spot on our list of winners. If you don't you are more than welcome to try again. (Actually, we encourage it. )



Good luck!

List of winners:

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)

why are those 3 ghost Pokemon can't be included?

I was loling at this at first, but it actually seems intresting. Lets see...

- Flygon (Phys. Sweep)
- Togekiss (Spec. Sweep)
- Infernape (Mixed Sweep)
- Slowbro (Spec. Sweep / Phys. Tank)
- Miltank (Spec. Sponge)
- Donphan (Utility)

Jumpluff(early game supporter)@ Focus Stash
Jolly
252 HP 252 Speed 6 Attack
Sleep Powder
Stun Spore
U-turn
Sunny Day(Stops Ttar)


Lucario(Early Physical Sweeper)@ Focus Stash
Adamant/ Jolly
252 Attack 252 Speed 4 HP
Sword Dance
Close Combat
Crunch
Bullet Punch

Starmie(Special Sweeper)@ Life Orb
Timid
252 Special Attack 252 Speed 4 HP
Surf
THunderblot
Ice Beam
Psychic

Cressilia( ALL AROUND WALL)@ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP 196 Defense 32 Specil Defense 32 Special attack
Rest
Calm Mind
Ice beam
HP Ground

Miltank(Cleric/Physical Wall)@ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP 252 Defense
Seismic Toss
Zen Headbutt/ Toxic
Milk Drink
Heal Bell

Metagross(Revenge KilleR)@Choice Band
200 HP 252 Attack 44 Defense 8 Speed
Bullet Punch
Pursuit
Meteor Mash
EQ


This team works well with the exception of EQ being a weakness of lucario and metagross, but that is why jumpluff and cressilia are there...not even a choice scarfed garchomp scares this set nor an Ddancing T-tar

You can't conceivably hope to combat teams based solely on their types. By such logic, Sableye should be invincible, yet it is pushed into the lower ends of UU. This won't help people build their teams up stronger, it will merely be a way of highlighting what your main weaknesses are (which I will outline how this will fail below.)




i) Sableye and Shedinja really aren't that much of a threat. Spirit is, but by no means is it indestructable.
ii) Manaphy is an uber, therefore it shouldn't really be taken into account.



But you won't be able to do that if you don't know what the moveset is.



Well, if it's not moveset and stuff that I'm posting and just the Pokemon, try and combat this team:

Skarmory
Ninetales
Gyarados
Vaporeon
Electivire
Gengar

There is no coneivable way of combatting that team according to your logic. If you choose to have a Pokemon that counters Skarmory with a Fire attack, I will just switch to Ninetales for Flash Fire. If you combat Ninetales with Ground and Water attacks, I can just switch to Gyarados / Vaporeon respectively. To take out those two, you use Electric attacks which Electivire absorbs with Motor Drive or switch to something like Gengar, Ninetales, or Skarmory.

Typically, I would use Spiritomb over Gengar (because it offers an immunity to Psychic) but you've blocked that one.

So you see, while this team is invincible against your system, it is easily blocked by other things. So this, while it seems a good idea, won't work without Moveset / all the other stuff.

OK here is my team I usually use. All are EV trained. I'd like to see you guys beat this. 52 strait wins on my Battle Record and only 14 losses is something to be proud of.








Good luck!

Shedinja has wonderguard which is too beast. Those other two have no weakness.





NO MOVESETS PLEASE. ALSO, ADD YOUR Pokemon ABILITY BECAUSE SOME HAVE TWO ABILITIES.

This thread is not about combat, it is about team weaknesses.


Once again, this is about team weaknesses, not the whole battling aspect in the metagame.


See above post.



LAST TIME I WANT TO EXPLAIN THIS. This is not about the metagame only, it is about what teams are weak against.

See if I know your team, I can create a team of three or so pokemon that can defeat all your pokemon, not by their jobs in battle, but by their types. Those three pokemon being the attack force, I can then use the other three pokemon as a support group. It doesn't matter if you have six perfectly trained Weaviles as Phys. Sweepers, if I have one Infernape with Drain Punch, a Big Root, and maxed attack and HP EVs, I will win most likely win. That's almost six pokemon dominated with one. What's there to do now? You have two pokemon left, one with half health and I still have five untouched pokemon. Chances are, I will take down the two Weavile without using all 5 of those pokemon.

Building teams is not only about which pokemon make the best for the jobs you want, it's also about putting together a team that won't be swept by one strong pokemon due to all of your pokemon being weak to it.

That's exactly the point, to highlight main weaknessess, thus leading to a more stable team. The reason we don't alow Sableye is because it has no weaknessess without special means, and this is based almost soley on type.


Sabley and Spiritomb both have no weaknessess without special measures, and since this is based mostly on type match-ups, it's not good to have 'em. The reason he banned Shedinja is because Shedinja could completely block anything that isn't super-effective against it. The whole Manaphy/ubers/legendaries, well talk to Smells Like about that, not me.


Again, this is based mostly on type/abilities.

Actually, anything that's electric and has Volt Absorb will stand fairly well against your team. Then all we'd need is a ground and dark. I'd give you more a more indepth team, but my computer is bugged at the moment (which is the same reason I haven't replied to anybodies' teams yet, sorry about that). The fact that we're coming up with 3 person teams should warant us some slack, as we could easily come up with a 4+ team to beat it.

Sorry, but I'm still not seeing how this isn't a fairly decent idea. It's a quick way to highlight your instabilies (if you have them). The whole reason we started this thread is because we were seeing teams that could easily be taken down by 3 or less Pokémon. While that may not have been your team, there are still some maybe not-too-great team builders out there that don't see their weaknessess.

To get to the first team:


Weavile takes out Flygon, Ledian, Claydol, Mismagius, and Gardavoir. Then all we'd need is a ground that had a defense agaisnt ice, such as Mamoswine/Camerupt. That's a two person sweep right there, with room for one more. Better luck next time.
Note: I don't mind the whole moveset thing, but Smells Like said only to post the team and ability (especially if it has more than one). Same goes for items and strategey. And while you do have a few moves to counter Weavile, its beast Attack and Speed means you probably won't beable to get 'em off in time. Combine that with the fact that this is a two person team, well it shows you that you're in trouble.

There seems to be a lot of contradiction about this whole thread.



So...then why didn't you come up with said team to defeat my other six?

You can hardly go and say, "Well, I can use my Pokemon X to have a type advantage over your Skarmory," because my Skarm's weaknesses are entirely covered.

My issue with this thread is that here is your apparent aim:



To put it simply, weaknesses / resistances / immunities are only one aspect of battling. This does not help people create stronger teams, it merely makes them more wall orientated. This system does absolutely nothing in the way of helping people, because you've banned three Pokemon that are quite vialbe in the metagame. Why would you ban those Pokemon if you want to help people increase their battling prowess?



If you hadn't noticed, this section of the forum is about discussing the metagame. By posting this 'wonderful' system of yours here, people are going to be taking the metagame into consideration. I repeat: Battling is not only about team weaknesses.



So I repeat, what strong Pokemon sweeps the team that neither of you have bothered to 'rate?' Whatever you attempt to do, I can switch my Pokemon out, and if you pull the whole 'but this isn't about the metagame and therefore we're not taking switching into account' then what the hell is the purpose in this thread?



My fingers are aching from typing the same thing: Why have you banned those Pokemon from your team rate? You can't 'help people get better at teambuilding' if you're banning Pokemon that may well be the core of a team. You seem to be ignoring major threats for the sake of them being major threats.



...and? Doesn't that just highlight how crap your system is? If you can't take Pokemon like Spirit and Sheddy into account, then the system needs rethinking.



I tried, see the post directly above your own.



And what if my team is based around using Pokemon such as Spiritomb / Sableye / Sheddy? Then this alienates said battlers from using your 'decent idea' of a system.



That's why this board has a Rating Thread. The idea is that you post your team there, in the hopes that the raters of that thread will tell you what your main weaknesses are. What's the point in having a second identical topic with Pokemon restrictions on it?



Mamoswine and Camerupt are not resistant to Ice. Mamoswine's dual typing of Ground / Ice means that it takes Neutral from Ice attacks, and that is the same for Camerupt. Similarly, if Flygon has a Substitute up BEFORE you get your Weavile out, it's going to be OHKOed by Draco Meteor after it's broken down said Substitute.



So, what about a team that has an obvious weakness to Weavile, and yet has posted no moves? How do you know it doesn't have a Banded Mach Punch / Bullet Punch? Then this system is, once again, brought crashing down.

Really, this is a waste of time. If people want to find out how their team is doing, they'll post in the Rating Center. Those that do post in here are probably testing the water to see how entertaining it is when you suggest using Mamoswine / Camerupt as a counter to Ground and Ice types (which has near perfect coverage against all Pokemon in the game.)

Just give up.

http://www.psypokes.com/dex/typeanalysis.php

/thread

I'll give it up when you stop trying to make an arguement by stating the same fact over and over and over and over and over again. There is nothing wrong with this thread, and just because YOU see an issue with it, doesn't mean that it should be deleted. Come up with some reasons that can't be shot down, and I will ask one of the mods to lock it. Until then, you have 3 options. Abide by the posting rules and post a team in the proper format (WITHOUT THIS FORMAT WE WILL IGNORE IT), find a way to prove me wrong, or not post.


By the way, quit trying to kill this thread. I am willing to bet I have far more experience in ending threadkillers then you have experience killing threads.



Close, but not quite there yet.

Ninjask - Naive

Garchomp - Jolly

Porygon-Z - Timid

Salamence - Modest

Gallade - Adamant

Umbreon - Bold

No, you have not 'already explained that.' And I have to keep 're-hashing' the same argument over and over because you still haven't come up with a clear argument as to why you have banned those three Pokemon that I am STILL trying to work out why you have banned.

All you have said is because:



However, you have also stated:



...so...let me get this straight, and feel free to contradict me at any time:

i) You want to help people build strong teams.

ii) As such, you have developed a system that allows you to see what the team's massive type weakness is.

iii) Because your system works on typing alone, you cannot have Pokemon that have no type weakness.

iv) As a result, you have banned the two Pokemon that have no weakness, and the one that just pisses everyone off.

Is that all right?

If so, then I ask you (again, seeing as I had no coherent answer:) why do you continue the charade that this system 'helps people' if it bans Pokemon that are perfectly viable in battles. (Note: I said battles, and not metagame, seeing as you have an aversion to the word.)

Surely it proves that the battler is addressing his team's weakness by including a Pokemon that has no weakness to it? If my team is Psychic weak, then I could shove a Spiritomb on it. Therefore, you seem to be banning those three Pokemon in order to admit that this system is utterly crap. Flawed just doesn't cover it anymore.

And as for my team that's posted in the wrong format:

Skarmory - Sturdy
Ninetales - Flash Fire
Gyarados - Intimidate
Vaporeon - Water Absorb
Electivire - Motor Drive
Gengar - Levitate

Tell me that my team has a type weakness, and I will throw it back in your face. The only thing my team could fear is an Aerodactyl using Stone Edge, and even then I have four Pokemon that have attacks to dispel that, one of which will easily outspeed Aerodactyl (providing it has no Scarf, which is rarer than a Specs Gyarados) and another Pokemon that has the ability to lower its attack. My team is dependant on each Pokemon's weakness in order to boost another Pokemon's strength. My team's weakness is, in essence, my teams strength. Skarmory is weak only to Electric and Fire, both of which have advantageous effects on my two main sweepers. As soon as Skarm sees a threat, it switches to one of those, and gives them a power / speed boost. And your argument of 'I'll keep switching,' is flawed because (had you allowed us to post movesets, you would have got this into your particularly thick and stubborn skull) my Skarmory takes advantage of Spikes in order to prevent my opponent from cloning my strategy.
And I frequently use this team (albeit with something other than Vaporeon) and even without that staple part of this theoretical team, it is highly potent. I do not particularly care for your critique, I hope only to highlight the fact that your system should deem this team awful, and is therefore flawed.

Besides, I explained my team's mechanics to you in my first post; by stating that it doesn't abide by the rules (due to not including abilities that I clearly alluded to in said post) it seems that you are merely putting off the inevitable that is the fact that your system is crap and does not work.



Beleive me, if I was anything more than what I am, this thread would be shut down immediately. seeing as I have not attained mod status, I can only appeal to the moderators of this board (one of which you have ignored in your own thread, I beleive EP is still waiting for you to assess his team.)

Similarly, you have also ignored Sapphirath's incredibly potent point; this isn't going to help anyone with improving their skills.

Nida's link also highlights the fact that this thread is made entirely redundant by an already existing feature on this site. Please convince me as to why this thread is any good, and does anything more than what the already existing rating thread does and the team type analyser does.

Before any of you start to PM me for locking this topic to complain/thank/whatever, read my entire post.

Although this topic was originally created with good intentions, it does not fit in with this forum. This is the competitive battling forum, and this is a competition that deals with basic knowledge of the game. After some reorganizing and much more detail, I don't see why a similar contest can't be added to the Game Corner forum. Of course, this would need to be aware of various Game Corner rules and stuff, but that's another story.

I did not lock this topic because it's a dumb topic or anything like that. The discussion in it however is awful. Arguments over such small details are quite useless, and I can't see this being resolved by simple means. I would have liked to lock this and move it to the Game Corner forum so that a mod there could keep it going after the competition would be sorted out better, but the topic would require a lot of cleaning, too, and that would be quite difficult to explain concisely (and I don't want to be flooded with PM questions about it). Perhaps if this topic had been taken care of earlier, I would not need to lock it or do much other than just post or move and clean it out.

On the other hand, this could have been dealt with much more maturely from both sides. It could have been explained more thoroughly from the creator, and it could have been organized better. There is a very relevant page on the site already presented that deals with helping with team typing, which makes this contest seem slightly pointless from the educational view. With some work, this could have decent potential in the Game Corner forum.

The Obsidian Wolf: Please deal with these types of situations much more calmly. Provoking a huge problem would get you in a lot of trouble, too. You do not have any immunity of any sort by bringing this up the way you did.

I have (unofficially) warned those of you that have taken part in making such a big deal out of this. In the case that anyone persists in taking this and making into an even larger deal, I will not take it very lightly.