I hatched a nearly perfect Togepi. Here he is:
Modest, Serene Grace, IVs 9/31/11/31/12/29
EV trained, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 6 HP

Really nice. Sp Atk is 189 at level 50. Air Slash does major damage.
Except that it doesn't often go before the enemy... Even with an IV of 29 Togekiss' speed stat is 130 at level 50. As far as I can tell, a Scarf is needed to move first and make any common OU opponents flinch. But taking away that King's Rock lowers the chance of getting a flinch.

Seriously, I can't get my head around this Catch 22.

'Kiss would have to get a speed boost from a Baton Passer for the flinch set to work effectively. That's the only way I see it working.





Oh yeah, and if you say I should rebreed for a Timid Togepi, look at the stat calculator. At level 50 a timid Togekiss with the same IV as mine and 252 Speed EVs only has 14 more stat points in speed than mine. I don't see that as much of a difference at all.

Well Air Slash on Togekiss is special in that it doesn't need King's Rock to flinch more times than not. With Serene Grace, the flinch rate is 60%, which is under the category of hax.

If you're providing us with stats at level 50, is it safe to assume this is for BT? I do see that choice items aren't the best in 3 vs. 3 matches, but paralysis support might work here to flinch stuff.

Yeah, Thunderwave is a solid choice in my opinion. Just have to be heads up on those Electivire's etc...

And although unrelated to your situation, I'm considering running a -Spd nature 'flinch' Togekiss on a Trick Room themed team. I'm not even close to breeding the Togepi I need yet though, but I'll let you know how that goes. But I think Trick Room has some great potential to screw with those fragile sweepers that rely so much on speed to set up.

Yeah, I was hoping to use this Togekiss in BT.

I didn't think of paralysis but I can definately work it in. Thanks for the idea.

Paralyis lowers Spd, and raises the chance of *Wasted turn! Damn!!11!* So you will be wanting to have it in there somewhere.

Flinchkiss doesn't work? Man you obviously haven't tried it out yet. It WORKS. And it's extremely deadly, but it's scared of Dragonites and Electrivires. Trust me, if you paralyze the foe and start Air Slashing you most likely won't see the opponent reacting at all.

Word of caution though, I don't think Any hax strategy is the way to go in the battle tower. Least not past a certain number of trainers.

What Faceless is suggesting is, that odds and chance are changed to go against you, so expect deminishing returns.

Is there actually any proof of that, or is it that people mistake chance-when-in-a-dire position for being a vendetta, forged by ingame computers? I can't see the game designers messing with the game's coding JUST to make the Battle Tower broken.

Also, (I'm not sure if I'm right on this one) but I was under the impression that this generation, Kings Rock only added a flinch effect to moves that didn't have it, as opposed to increasing the flinch hax rate.

In the BTower, watch out for Weavile later on. They hurt lots, and make my Salamence cry.

Oh it's a fact. It's pretty overt if you get far in the battle tower. Damage rolls lower, you get criticaled way more often, ohko moves hit very often. Everything's just less likely to go in your favor. Not impossible though, one time sheer cold Did miss me.

It's like they get progressively larger bonuses to any random roll. Too many people have lost whole matches to consecutive ohko moves for it to possibly be just a massive wave of bad luck. I assume this is to keep people from having an unlimited record.

Even early in the battle tower (before level 50) I've been hit by ohko moves 6 out of the 7 times they've been used. and received as many as 5 consecutive critical hits.

Hmm...does that mean that the game somehow purposely make things happen just to make sure we'll lose at some point of time? I've noticed something like it too....ai in the battle tower can have perfect counters for your team...it's like as if the game somehow assigned the bot that particular team so that we'll lose. Anyway, even if that's the case in the battle tower, I doubt that's the case when battling other real people, cos it'll simply be too unfair. So I'll still say, Flinchkiss works.

Well, I don't see the evidence for the wifi battle tower not doing it, but I've never done that one, so I really have no clue. It should be obvious at about 50ish win? Whether or not it does the same.

Yeah, I think it makes sense to try there, singles battle tower not as much.

It works, granted that Togekiss makes the first move that turn.



I'm not sure on this one either, but I'd rather have it hold a King's Rock than a Choice Scarf.

I checked, Kings Rock merely adds the effecet, rather than increases the likelihood of it actually flinchhaxxing the opponent. Scarf is better, or a combination of TWave and something else, imo.

Now I just gotta get enough BP to buy that TM.
I should never have bought the Power Items.

Thanks to all for the help.