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Cactuar
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:08 pm Posts: 636 Location: Getting Jirachi off wi-fi...100 times
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Hi, I want to get some opinions on if Skymin is uber. I think yes because of the serene grace/air slash combo.
_________________ Shiny Pokemon: Two Togepi, Machop, and Pichu, along with 9 PCP and two Red Gyarados Trade wants: Good IV Scyther/Scizor and Good IV Pokemon from the Chansey family! I have lots of event Pokemon/TMs/Items for trade! PM me for a battle!I need Red Shards! I will trade Lugia/Ho-Oh/Other stuff for a Red Shard!
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Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:28 am |
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Antigua
Ace Trainer
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:59 pm Posts: 259 Location: United States of America
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Quote: I think yes because of the serene grace/air slash combo.
If that is your logic, then you might as well say that Togekiss is 'Uber' due to the same reasoning. The only real tiers that people follow are Smogon's. A simple Google search will lead you in the right direction for that discussion.
_________________Friend Code: 3566-7635-2095
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Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:27 am |
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MasonTheChef
Pokemon Master
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:02 am Posts: 1575 Location: Michigan
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Oddly enough I couldn't find anything on google.
Last I heard it was still being debated between OU and Ubers, with a strong slant towards being Uber. Graceflinch, Unique speed tier, earth power to easily ko any steel not immune, and Seed flare's ability to 2hko Blissey. Are among there reasons for that. It's type, low defenses and predictable type movepool are the reason for OU.
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Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:03 pm |
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Cactuar
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:08 pm Posts: 636 Location: Getting Jirachi off wi-fi...100 times
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Yeah seed flare has an 80% chance to lower SD with skymin.
_________________ Shiny Pokemon: Two Togepi, Machop, and Pichu, along with 9 PCP and two Red Gyarados Trade wants: Good IV Scyther/Scizor and Good IV Pokemon from the Chansey family! I have lots of event Pokemon/TMs/Items for trade! PM me for a battle!I need Red Shards! I will trade Lugia/Ho-Oh/Other stuff for a Red Shard!
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Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:17 pm |
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FrozenVirus
Pokemon Trainer
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:43 pm Posts: 30
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Weirdly enough, I tried using Skymin on UU a few days ago on Shoddy (Smogon server), and it said it was banned. So I used it in OU. Then, I tried using it in OU today, and apparently it got banned from the OU ladder as well. Sheesh.
Really though, Skymin can't even switch into a lot of things these days. With weaknesses to Fire, Flying, Rock, Poison, and Ice (4x) and horrid defenses, it won't stay around for very long. At least it keeps its base 100 HP when it turns to Skymin...
Serene Grace + Air Slash / Seed Flare combination is pretty cheap though. But a Blissey with Ice Beam (which is fairly common these days) can easily take it down.
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Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:18 pm |
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Frost
THE POWER IS ON!
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:29 am Posts: 1581 Location: Purple Ranger
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Theorymon time!
Blissey, a.k.a. the greatest Special tank ever made, is very likely to die against Skymin because of the ridiculousness that is Serene Grace Seed Flare. 80% of the time Blissey is looking at her Special Defense being halved as a SIDE EFFECT of a STAB attack that has 120 Base Power. Needless to say that not even BlisseyGoddess can really stand up Seed Flare's abuse, and all of this is before Skymin even needs to pull out its other tricks (namely being the fastest Subseeder in the game and abusing Air Slash's flinch rate).
4x weakness to Ice? Who cares when they're not hitting you 60% of the time if you're using Air Slash? Or when you're behind a Sub? Or when you force the opponent to switch out or die because Seed Flare just nerfed their Special Defense by half? Oh, and the Togekiss flinchax comparisons are also null. Skymin is Togekiss on the world's most powerful steroids and a ton of caffeine. Togekiss has the same amount of SA, but Skymin has a ton more speed. Like, base 47 more speed. And what's the most important thing when you're trying to enforce flinchax? Speed.
I'd say it was quite justifiably moved to Ubers.
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Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:03 am |
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Dyvius
Psychic Trainer
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:35 am Posts: 85
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apparently, Skymin blows hw wimpy Shaymin out of the water. I want a Shaymin only to get Skymin in Platinum.
though that makes for some devastating combos in the long run, it really messes with your head when you think about it.
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:49 am |
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khoufu
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:22 pm Posts: 545 Location: In America!
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Shaymin = Event Only = Legendary = Uber
Thus, SHaymin is 'Uber', just lie Rayquaza, Manaphy, Garchomp, etc.
_________________(by spiritombs nightmare) I trade/battle, PM me anytime! Name:Madelin FC:(Diamond)3780 9007 3601 (Pearl)5370 0386 0381 (Platinum)5155 8801 1692 (by Ender)
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:44 am |
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MasonTheChef
Pokemon Master
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:02 am Posts: 1575 Location: Michigan
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khoufu wrote: Shaymin = Event Only = Legendary = Uber
Thus, SHaymin is 'Uber', just lie Rayquaza, Manaphy, Garchomp, etc.
.....
Then, by that logic how is Garchomp/Wobbuffet classified as Uber?
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:04 am |
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khoufu
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:22 pm Posts: 545 Location: In America!
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MasterChef wrote: khoufu wrote: Shaymin = Event Only = Legendary = Uber
Thus, SHaymin is 'Uber', just lie Rayquaza, Manaphy, Garchomp, etc.
.....
Then, by that logic how is Garchomp/Wobbuffet classified as Uber?
Wobbuffet = rare I know you get it from evolving a Wynaut form an egg in Hoenn, but I don't know how to originally get it, so I don't kow.
Garchomp = evolves from rare = Dragon-type = good stats I think that's how, something like that.
_________________(by spiritombs nightmare) I trade/battle, PM me anytime! Name:Madelin FC:(Diamond)3780 9007 3601 (Pearl)5370 0386 0381 (Platinum)5155 8801 1692 (by Ender)
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:26 pm |
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MasonTheChef
Pokemon Master
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:02 am Posts: 1575 Location: Michigan
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That's... not how Uber tier works...
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:35 pm |
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shinashu taji
Pokemon Master
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:49 pm Posts: 1196 Location: William McKinley High School. Lima, Ohio.
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khoufu wrote: MasterChef wrote: khoufu wrote: Shaymin = Event Only = Legendary = Uber
Thus, SHaymin is 'Uber', just lie Rayquaza, Manaphy, Garchomp, etc.
.....
Then, by that logic how is Garchomp/Wobbuffet classified as Uber?
Wobbuffet = rare I know you get it from evolving a Wynaut form an egg in Hoenn, but I don't know how to originally get it, so I don't kow.
Garchomp = evolves from rare = Dragon-type = good stats I think that's how, something like that.
Before ever trying to post an equation stating that pokemon are Uber make sure it is sensible this is the proper equations for those two pokemon.
Wobb=uber because-Ridiculous amounts of HP the ability to trap a pokemon encore whatever move the oppoent uses and proceed to counter the best way possible.
Garchomp=uber because-Insane attack power with choice scarf on it outspeeds Deoxys A has a higher base speed of Rayquaza. Plus him being able to cripple an entire team of pokemon all by himself is reason enough.
_________________ I suck at WiFi battling.
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:52 pm |
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Cactuar
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:08 pm Posts: 636 Location: Getting Jirachi off wi-fi...100 times
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An uber is a pokemon with insanely good stats or moves. Types and methods of obtaining do not classify an uber.
_________________ Shiny Pokemon: Two Togepi, Machop, and Pichu, along with 9 PCP and two Red Gyarados Trade wants: Good IV Scyther/Scizor and Good IV Pokemon from the Chansey family! I have lots of event Pokemon/TMs/Items for trade! PM me for a battle!I need Red Shards! I will trade Lugia/Ho-Oh/Other stuff for a Red Shard!
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:51 pm |
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Theolithical
Dragon Tamer
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:01 pm Posts: 100 Location: Maryland
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Yeah. I'd define the Uber tier as having both stats and movepools that allow it to easily tear through other teams; Mewtwo is a great example of this. It has an insane-high speed stat, where almost no pokemon can outrun it, but also a godly sp. att. To top it off, it's got a great moveset that allows it to succesfully pull off many different strategies.
Though in my opinion Garchomp is a special case. It has great stats, yet a very limited movepool which was was kept it in the OU tier. The fact that it was used in *ALL* battles is why I think that it was bumped up into the uber tier.
_________________Pokemon Diamond Friend code=2792-7557-8220 Sig by Ender
Last edited by Theolithical on Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:42 pm |
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khoufu
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:22 pm Posts: 545 Location: In America!
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I used equation-form just for Shaymin, and event pokemon are always strong and/or legendary.
Btw, I think I jsut realized why I love Garchomp so much.
_________________(by spiritombs nightmare) I trade/battle, PM me anytime! Name:Madelin FC:(Diamond)3780 9007 3601 (Pearl)5370 0386 0381 (Platinum)5155 8801 1692 (by Ender)
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Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:48 pm |
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Volke
Ace Trainer
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:08 pm Posts: 451 Location: Suwanee, GA, USA
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khoufu wrote: event pokemon are always strong and/or legendary.
Btw, I think I jsut realized why I love Garchomp so much.
Most of the time, but not always; they gave away a Surfing Pikachu once. I'm pretty sure they gave away other Pokemon like that, but I can't think of any at the top of my head.
Mind sharing why you love Garchomp?
_________________ AIM: Fausch 3173 Courtesy of Afonso! ^_^ Time Zone: UTC -4 (EDT) Record: W:66 L:24 Vs. Will: W:18 L:2 I'm always up for a battle! Sorry guys, I've been busy lately.
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Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:53 pm |
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khoufu
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:22 pm Posts: 545 Location: In America!
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SHiny Milotic, lv 50 Dragonite, yeah I know about them. Still, they're pretty good, not weak. I meant event-only pokemon like Deoxys, Arceus, etc.
_________________(by spiritombs nightmare) I trade/battle, PM me anytime! Name:Madelin FC:(Diamond)3780 9007 3601 (Pearl)5370 0386 0381 (Platinum)5155 8801 1692 (by Ender)
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Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:38 pm |
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Chillin Rabbit
Bug Catcher
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:28 pm Posts: 2
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Frost wrote: Theorymon time!
Blissey, a.k.a. the greatest Special tank ever made, is very likely to die against Skymin because of the ridiculousness that is Serene Grace Seed Flare. 80% of the time Blissey is looking at her Special Defense being halved as a SIDE EFFECT of a STAB attack that has 120 Base Power. Needless to say that not even BlisseyGoddess can really stand up Seed Flare's abuse, and all of this is before Skymin even needs to pull out its other tricks (namely being the fastest Subseeder in the game and abusing Air Slash's flinch rate).
4x weakness to Ice? Who cares when they're not hitting you 60% of the time if you're using Air Slash? Or when you're behind a Sub? Or when you force the opponent to switch out or die because Seed Flare just nerfed their Special Defense by half? Oh, and the Togekiss flinchax comparisons are also null. Skymin is Togekiss on the world's most powerful steroids and a ton of caffeine. Togekiss has the same amount of SA, but Skymin has a ton more speed. Like, base 47 more speed. And what's the most important thing when you're trying to enforce flinchax? Speed.
I'd say it was quite justifiably moved to Ubers.
@ choice band ice shard = for skymin
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Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:39 pm |
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Rhydon
Dragon Tamer
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:34 pm Posts: 149 Location: In Umbreons Heart
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Umm Shaymin is UU because given Skymin's stats and stuff he can;t go on wifi and keep Skymin forme.I've tried 4 wifi battleing
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Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:07 pm |
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Theolithical
Dragon Tamer
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:01 pm Posts: 100 Location: Maryland
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Rhydon wrote: Umm Shaymin is UU because given Skymin's stats and stuff he can;t go on wifi and keep Skymin forme.I've tried 4 wifi battleing
I think that's only if you battle D/P though, it should work against other Platinums.
_________________Pokemon Diamond Friend code=2792-7557-8220 Sig by Ender
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Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:43 pm |
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Frost
THE POWER IS ON!
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:29 am Posts: 1581 Location: Purple Ranger
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Chillin Rabbit wrote: @ choice band ice shard = for skymin
Um, yeah, having one specialized counter doesn't mean a Pokemon isn't Uber, thanks. Especially not when that "counter" is made out of glass itself. You're greatly undermining the opponent's intelligence if you think he or she will just leave Skymin out to get smacked in the face with an Ice Shard or, even worse, Skymin can be behind a Sub and Weavile can be blasted any one of Seed Flare / Air Slash / Earth Power, etc.
A more realistic Skymin counter is an Inner Focus Pokemon who resists Grass like Dragonite, but too many people have a hard-on for Salamence to use him. And even then, Dragonite is the only OU Pokemon who can fill such a role and still has trouble getting around Subseeding with his inferior speed and decent HP stats. Heatran works as long as Skymin doesn't pull out an Earth Power but, even then, there are few sure-fire ways to beat Skymin's combination of flinchax (or potential Earth Power) + Serene Grace Seed Flare + subseeding.
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Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:51 pm |
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Rhydon
Dragon Tamer
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:34 pm Posts: 149 Location: In Umbreons Heart
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Theolithical wrote: Rhydon wrote: Umm Shaymin is UU because given Skymin's stats and stuff he can;t go on wifi and keep Skymin forme.I've tried 4 wifi battleing
I think that's only if you battle D/P though, it should work against other Platinums.
No you can't go on wifi with it at all
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Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:41 pm |
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khoufu
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:22 pm Posts: 545 Location: In America!
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Yes you can, I battled my friend's Shaymin. Just like Rotom and Giratina can't keep their forms in GTS or on battle/trade/etc. w/ DP instead of Platinum. And, Shaymin is only Grass-type, which I don't like cus Grass-type isn't good against much. Sky forme is great, but only w/ a legit one on Platinum so :/ I have 2 not-so-legit, caught in a not-so-legit Master Ball and (I forget) special pokeball or Emerald-clone Master Ball (when I win lottery).
_________________(by spiritombs nightmare) I trade/battle, PM me anytime! Name:Madelin FC:(Diamond)3780 9007 3601 (Pearl)5370 0386 0381 (Platinum)5155 8801 1692 (by Ender)
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Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:08 pm |
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Face
ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 5:38 am Posts: 149 Location: failworld
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khoufu wrote: Yes you can, I battled my friend's Shaymin. Just like Rotom and Giratina can't keep their forms in GTS or on battle/trade/etc. w/ DP instead of Platinum. And, Shaymin is only Grass-type, which I don't like cus Grass-type isn't good against much. Sky forme is great, but only w/ a legit one on Platinum so :/ I have 2 not-so-legit, caught in a not-so-legit Master Ball and (I forget) special pokeball or Emerald-clone Master Ball (when I win lottery).
It took me ten years and four expert teams to decode this gibberish.
My conclusion is that most of it is information that no one ever asked for or cares to hear "HAY GAIS I TTLY HAT GRS TYPZ LOL ALSO I CLN MSTERBALZ CUZ I WIN EMERLD LATERI"
All that garbage aside, Skymin going to uber was a smart move. Defeating it requires that you either have a specific counter in play just for it (which is grounds for uber on it's own), and even then, if your opponent has half a brain, they can just swap out for something that will kill/wall your counter.
Weavile being a counter... that sounds like a certain dragon type that was also bumped to uber... Sorry, but Weavile just doesn't cut it.
_________________Goodbye Psypoke. Consider this my going away present. "DERP I'M A DUMBASS :B"
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Thu May 21, 2009 2:13 am |
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Registeel_Rocks
Gym Leader
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:33 pm Posts: 1578 Location: Wisconsin
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Face wrote: It took me ten years and four expert teams to decode this gibberish.
My conclusion is that most of it is information that no one ever asked for or cares to hear "HAY GAIS I TTLY HAT GRS TYPZ LOL ALSO I CLN MSTERBALZ CUZ I WIN EMERLD LATERI"
Off-topic: Awesome post is awesome
On-topic: What am I saying... I don't know anything relative to the subject matter, nor will I ever.
_________________
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Fri May 22, 2009 5:48 pm |
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