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 Protect and Substitute 
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Pokemon Trainer
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Does anyone know the mechanics behing these moves? If you have a sub up, can protect stop the sub from being broken? Can both moves be used in succession? And would it be practical to make a PP staller that has both? Thanks.


Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:38 pm
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Whenever you use protect, nothing happens to that pokemon for that turn, including damage to substitutes. They can also be used in succession. Some sets do try to utilize protect and substitute to great effect, most notably Stalrien (Walrien in Hail which, if used properly, can stall for up to 32 turns). On a PP waster, it's definatley an option, but you'll generally find that better ones exist. For example, Zapdos is a very common PP staller who uses it's great defenses, excelent typing, ability and Roost to quickly drain the opposition of powerful attacking moves. Many Zapdos sets carry Substitute to prevent it from being hit with statuses. Assuming you also decide to use Thunderbolt (which any Zapdos set needs) and Roost, you now have to choose between Protect (which you may be able to utilize to stall PP) or another attacking move to help it cover its weaknesses. With protect, You'll be forced to sit around and wait for Swampert and any other ground type to run out of PP and pray your opponent doesn't find away to break through your defenses. With Hidden Power [Ice] however, you get to hit those ground types and swampert while hiding behind substitutes and roost.

In the end, yes, it's an option, yes it can be used somewhat effectivley, but yes, there are usually better options. Hope that helped.

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Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:13 pm
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Yeah, that helped a lot, thanks :mrgreen: . I was thinking of choosing between protect and an offensive move (focus punch?).


Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:24 pm
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Focus Punch is nice, especially if you're using someone with Bulk Up. Bulk Up makes your substitutes incredibly difficult to break from the physical spectrum, meanwhile even with minor attack investments, Focus Punch after two or more Bulk Ups will hurt anything that doesn't resist it. Of course, if you decide to use this strategy, you're moving further and further away from a "pp staller" and closer and closer to a "tank."

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Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:37 pm
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Ah, okay. On a slightly related note, I have an Adamant Hariyama with i believe a 31 in Attack and 30 in HP, ev'd in Attack and the defensive stats. I'm fairly sure his HP breaks 404, but I haven't been able to do anything with him as of yet. The current moves are Close Combat, Bulk Up, Rest, and Payback, but, sadly, this doesn't actually work. If I were to replace CC with Focus Punch, what move would be best to replace with the sub? Ability is Guts, btw.


Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:58 am
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modim_012 wrote:
ev'd in Attack and the defensive stats.


If your running an offensive hariyama then EV in HP over defense, the HP bulks out both def and s.def absorbing.

modim_012 wrote:
I'm fairly sure his HP breaks 404, but I haven't been able to do anything with him as of yet. The current moves are Close Combat, Bulk Up, Rest, and Payback, but, sadly, this doesn't actually work. If I were to replace CC with Focus Punch, what move would be best to replace with the sub? Ability is Guts, btw.


Rest and Sub+punch have quite a hard time fitting on the same set. With guts as the ability your better off with a sleep talker, whereas thick fat can assist you walling and getting subs up. For a sub+punch+Bulk up set try going with:

Hariyama
Adamant @ Thick fat
Leftovers
240HP 58Def 212S.def
-Sub
-Bulk up/Element punch
-Focus punch
-Payback/Stone edge


Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:02 pm
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