Psypoke :: View topic - Competitive Movesets Guide v.2

Prophet wrote:

Yeah sorry but Dragonbreath does suck in the metagame. The power is just too damn low, and the only thing it's super effective against is other dragons. HP Electric would allow you to be much more versatile. Special Sweepers like this set are supposed to strike fast and hard, and Dragonbreath's low power just doesn't cut it. And why go for a 1 in 10 chance of paralysis when you could just use Thunder Wave on a different pokemon and get a 100% chance?

Just because a move gets STAB doesn't mean you should use it.

Neo_Matrix wrote:

HP Electric? Seriously. Dragonbreath is the third highest power Dragon move in the game.

Neo_Matrix wrote:

The only type resistant to Dragon is Steel, and pretty much all Steel types get laughed at by 1 or 2 Surfs. Dragonbreath is there to take care of what Ice Beam and Surf cannot.

Neo_Matrix wrote:

I believe 30% Chance of Paralyzation is good enough for me.

Neo_Matrix wrote:

Imagine this:

Trainer A sent out Kingdra!
Trainer B sent out Groudon!

Trainer B withdrew Groudon and sent out Joltoen!
Kingdra used Dragonbreath!
Jolteon is paralyzed.!

Prepare to smite.

Neo_Matrix wrote:

Of course every pokemon in the game is weak to at least some pokemon. Blissey and Regice ALWAYS laughed at this thing. Lapras killed it. But everything else is a potential victim of Kingdra, ranging from ubers(Groudon),

Neo_Matrix wrote:

OU(Salamence),

Neo_Matrix wrote:

BL(Jumpluff)

Neo_Matrix wrote:

UU(Butterfree).

Tobey wrote:

My brother recently introduced me to the ONLY POKEMON who should have Dragon Claw in its moveset in this current metagame: DragonthrowerDragonite. It works similar to SBBP Draggy.

Dragonite@Leftovers
-Flamethrower
-Dragon claw
-Focus punch
-Substitute

Tobey wrote:

Dragon Rage = WTFLOLPWNBBQ x 10.

FireStarter wrote:

just a note: if the movesets were a little detailed, this would be worth moving to the Game Guides forum.

FireStarter wrote:

"how a moveset works or what the pokemon is used for."

exactly.

You might understand it, and I might understand it, but everyone else might not. Certain sets just need a little bit more...explaination. Also, a key explaining what certain terminology used means would help.

I'm not saying any set needs a paragraph. Alot of the sets don't require more than a simple setence for them to be obvious. However, the clarification which some people need would be useful and greatly improve the guide.

FireStarter wrote:

I saw the first analysis, and it was quite nice. I would liked to have stickied it but if I sticky every anlysis that would cause problems.

Anyway, nice work on it.

Author:	Prophet [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:
Yeah sorry but Dragonbreath does suck in the metagame. The power is just too damn low, and the only thing it's super effective against is other dragons. HP Electric would allow you to be much more versatile. Special Sweepers like this set are supposed to strike fast and hard, and Dragonbreath's low power just doesn't cut it. And why go for a 1 in 10 chance of paralysis when you could just use Thunder Wave on a different pokemon and get a 100% chance? Just because a move gets STAB doesn't mean you should use it.

Author:	Waker of Chaos [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:41 pm ]
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Hmmm......Well, at least you didn't bark at me like last time......I'm still kind of bitter toward you and sancutary for reasons you already know of..... Anyway, I may as well try it.

Author:	Lynx [ Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:20 am ]
Post subject:
maybe if you would grow up you wouldnt accumulate so much anger and hatred...

Author:	Neo_Matrix [ Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:01 am ]
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Prophet wrote: Yeah sorry but Dragonbreath does suck in the metagame. The power is just too damn low, and the only thing it's super effective against is other dragons. HP Electric would allow you to be much more versatile. Special Sweepers like this set are supposed to strike fast and hard, and Dragonbreath's low power just doesn't cut it. And why go for a 1 in 10 chance of paralysis when you could just use Thunder Wave on a different pokemon and get a 100% chance? Just because a move gets STAB doesn't mean you should use it. I sit here thinking how people like you come up with this ape ****. I really do. HP Electric? Seriously. Dragonbreath is the third highest power Dragon move in the game. The only type resistant to Dragon is Steel, and pretty much all Steel types get laughed at by 1 or 2 Surfs. Dragonbreath is there to take care of what Ice Beam and Surf cannot. I believe 30% Chance of Paralyzation is good enough for me. Imagine this: Trainer A sent out Kingdra! Trainer B sent out Groudon! Trainer B withdrew Groudon and sent out Joltoen! Kingdra used Dragonbreath! Jolteon is paralyzed.! Prepare to smite. Of course every pokemon in the game is weak to at least some pokemon. Blissey and Regice ALWAYS laughed at this thing. Lapras killed it. But everything else is a potential victim of Kingdra, ranging from ubers(Groudon), OU(Salamence), BL(Jumpluff) and UU(Butterfree).

Author:	Synchronize [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:39 am ]
Post subject:
I lol @ d.breath. Offensive Dragon moves generally already suck. HP Grass/Electric are more useful for being SE against Water types, thank you.

Psypoke http://psypokes.com/forums/

Competitive Movesets Guide v.2 http://psypokes.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3205	Page 3 of 4

Author:	daveshan [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:09 am ]
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Neo_Matrix wrote: HP Electric? Seriously. Dragonbreath is the third highest power Dragon move in the game. Third highest doesn't mean good considering the only dragon attack worth having in metagames is dragon claw. Neo_Matrix wrote: The only type resistant to Dragon is Steel, and pretty much all Steel types get laughed at by 1 or 2 Surfs. Dragonbreath is there to take care of what Ice Beam and Surf cannot. Actually, those two together take care of (or do acceptable amount of damage to) almost all type combos, add another good special move and your sweeper is set. Neo_Matrix wrote: I believe 30% Chance of Paralyzation is good enough for me. Cool, then I'll beat you when I use thunder wave or stun spore which have 100% chance Neo_Matrix wrote: Imagine this: Trainer A sent out Kingdra! Trainer B sent out Groudon! Trainer B withdrew Groudon and sent out Joltoen! Kingdra used Dragonbreath! Jolteon is paralyzed.! Prepare to smite. Or a more realistic scene: Trainer A sent out Kingdra! Trainer B sent out Groudon! Groudon (who is faster than Kingdra) uses EQ! Kingdra (if it didn't faint) uses Dragonbreath! (To humor you) Groudon is paralyzed! Groudon's Leftovers restore hit points! Kingdra's Leftovers restore hit points! Kingdra use dragonbreath! Groudon use EQ! Kingdra faints! Neo_Matrix wrote: Of course every pokemon in the game is weak to at least some pokemon. Blissey and Regice ALWAYS laughed at this thing. Lapras killed it. But everything else is a potential victim of Kingdra, ranging from ubers(Groudon), Just disproved that. Neo_Matrix wrote: OU(Salamence), Unless it was given any good physical attack. If it did, then 2HKO since you gave it DB instead of Ice beam, which it might survive if EV's are right. Neo_Matrix wrote: BL(Jumpluff) Seed+sub+giga=owned Kingdra Neo_Matrix wrote: UU(Butterfree). Wow it can beat butterfree, such an accomplishment. :roll:

Author:	Prophet [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:27 pm ]
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Thank you daveshan. You took the words right out of my mouth. 70 base power that is super effective to water and flying types (1/3 of the pokemon in the game fyi) laughs at your pathetic Dragonbreath. JUST BECAUSE A MOVE HAS STAB DOES NOT MAKE IT GOOD.

Author:	Tobey [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:37 pm ]
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My brother recently introduced me to the ONLY POKEMON who should have Dragon Claw in its moveset in this current metagame: DragonthrowerDragonite. It works similar to SBBP Draggy. Dragonite@Leftovers -Flamethrower -Dragon claw -Focus punch -Substitute You'll want a Mild nature and spread the EVs for some nice defense and offense balance. Dragonthrower hits everything and is less common than boltbeam...thus few people will expect it. SubPunch just likes to spank Bliss, Lax and Regice. Dragon Claw gets some nice STAB and does very nice damage even without some Super-Effective. If it came down to it though, SubPunchBoltBeam Draggy > this one in terms of damage. Offensive Dragon attacks in general suck. Twister has too little of base power to actually make people worry. Outrage is like thrash and just gives Registeel more reason to get some OU play. Dragon Rage = WTFLOLPWNBBQ x 10. Dragon Claw has some decent power however fails to be effect because that Salamence/Dragonite/Flygon is going to have some HUGE sp.def support due to their 4x Ice Weak. Dragonbreath just makes me lol as it is outclassed by Dragon Claw but we just shot that attack down. HP Dragon is never ever used. So yeah. The only Dragon Attack worth using is Dragon Dance. For the record: ANY Water type pokemon with a Base Sp.Def of 80 and has a semi-decent amount Sp.Def EVs can wall Kingdra. HP Grass > HP Elec anyway. It would be a hoot if Kingdra could Giga Drain Swampert/Quaggy.

Author:	Sneaky Sneasel [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:
Actually...it isn't. Blizzard - BP 120 Ice Beam - BP 95 Ice Punch - BP 75 HP Ice - BP 70 Aurora Beam - BP 65 Icy Wind - BP 55 Powder Snow - BP 40 Hail - BP n/a But dave is right. So um...yeah. Game set match, end of story kthxbai.

Author:	Prophet [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:
Tobey wrote: My brother recently introduced me to the ONLY POKEMON who should have Dragon Claw in its moveset in this current metagame: DragonthrowerDragonite. It works similar to SBBP Draggy. Dragonite@Leftovers -Flamethrower -Dragon claw -Focus punch -Substitute I actually use this set with Fire Blast instead of Flamethrower to KO Skarm. It works really well, actually.

Author:	daveshan [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:29 pm ]
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Tobey wrote: Dragon Rage = WTFLOLPWNBBQ x 10. Never saw PWNBBQ before. I'm surprised you went with Fire Blast prophet. I'm used to most people on this forum not willing to take a chance with the accuracy loss. Psybucks for you...oh wait, I don't have any to donate.

Author:	Sneaky Sneasel [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:
Fire Blast has 85% acc, compare that to Toxic, which has 90% and Rock Slide. So it's not really that bad.

Author:	daveshan [ Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:
I have no problem w/fire blast, I actually use Heat Wave becuase I double battle a lot. It's just lots of people here prefer the more accurate move even if it means sacrificing 35 power.

Author:	Prophet [ Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:
I usually go with flamethrower, but F-Blast serves this particular set better. Flamethrower also has much more PP than Fire Blast so it's not just the accuracy. Accuracy tends to fail when you need it the most, so I usually go with Flamethrower.

Author:	Nuetral777 [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:15 pm ]
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:/ As much as I'd love to slap this list onto my Guide, it wouldn't be as great an idea, imo. This isn't so much a helpful guide that gives you tips and suggestions...this is a reference guide that gives you a quick zip to a standard(or in some cases not yet standard but effective) moveset for the pokemon they wish to use. The Guide to the Metagame is a helpful guide that gives suggestions and tips and a basic knowledge of the metagame so that the newbs can hit the Online Battling Scene with a general idea of standard pokemon and movesets. The Guide to the Metagame also gives them a slight boost to their skills in prediction. Putting the two together would make an extremely long post which would be frustrating and rather tiresome and boring to go through. Not to mention it would be rather intimidating to the unsuspecting newbie. Snowball, after reading some of the Pokemon Game Guide threads, said that there is no reason for this guide to be in the Pokemon Game Guide merely because that is for guides that go with the actual games of r/b/y/sdm/sdm2/g/s/c/ru/sa/em/col. It isn't for competitive battling because that is what this Netbattle Subforum is for. Synchronize has a nice idea of pokemon analysis. That way people debate and pick apart pokemon then just link them to the main site/maybe some collective Sticky topic. Only thing is, one topic for all the analysis would become very unorganized. So, I'll suggest either making a sub section in the Netbattle subforum or just allowing pokemon analysis to be displayed here.

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Author:	FireStarter [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:58 am ]
Post subject:
just a note: if the movesets were a little detailed, this would be worth moving to the Game Guides forum.

Author:	Nuetral777 [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:
FireStarter wrote: just a note: if the movesets were a little detailed, this would be worth moving to the Game Guides forum. What detail do you need? You can pretty much pick up the general idea of the set just by looking at it. But we already went through this mess once. :/

Author:	Tobey [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:
The only thing I will say in regards to the more detail bit is this: I have gotten no PMs about anything questioning how a moveset works or what the pokemon is used for. Believe this, had there been a PM asking about the moveset, I would have edited the list to reflect the question so that the one who PM'd and others like that user would get what the set is for. I've been assuming that the users here can see the uses of the pokemon and know how it is to be used on a team.

Author:	FireStarter [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:
"how a moveset works or what the pokemon is used for." exactly. You might understand it, and I might understand it, but everyone else might not. Certain sets just need a little bit more...explaination. Also, a key explaining what certain terminology used means would help. I'm not saying any set needs a paragraph. Alot of the sets don't require more than a simple setence for them to be obvious. However, the clarification which some people need would be useful and greatly improve the guide.

Author:	Tobey [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:59 am ]
Post subject:
FireStarter wrote: "how a moveset works or what the pokemon is used for." exactly. You might understand it, and I might understand it, but everyone else might not. Certain sets just need a little bit more...explaination. Also, a key explaining what certain terminology used means would help. I'm not saying any set needs a paragraph. Alot of the sets don't require more than a simple setence for them to be obvious. However, the clarification which some people need would be useful and greatly improve the guide. Terminology is covered in my brother's guide. In fact, the main reason I won't explain anything is because my brother's guide is there. If someone doesn't get something they can PM me and tell them and add that knowledge to the pokemon. Otherwise, I assume everyone is smart enough to understand, or at least figure it out, on their own. btw, The Happy Birthday Psypoke Banner is awesome looking.

Author:	Synchronize [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:37 am ]
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You can always make like an analysis index, where you give any good movesets for each pokemon in separate posts. Then you can sticky a post with links to all those analysis. That gives move room for detailed explanation of both pokemon and their movesets.

Author:	FireStarter [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:16 pm ]
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Actually, a combination of the Competitive sets guide and the Metagame guide could work as one guide instead, if you two would wish to do so.

Author:	FireStarter [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:17 pm ]
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I saw the first analysis, and it was quite nice. I would liked to have stickied it but if I sticky every anlysis that would cause problems. Anyway, nice work on it.

Author:	Tobey [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:24 pm ]
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FireStarter wrote: I saw the first analysis, and it was quite nice. I would liked to have stickied it but if I sticky every anlysis that would cause problems. Anyway, nice work on it. Best thing to do for the analysis volumes is, after a lot are posted, make a single topic with links to the analysis and sticky that single page. Then you could click the link to the particular pokemon.

Author:	Lynx [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:25 pm ]
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maybe link the name of each poke on the competitive movesets guide to its corresponding pokemon analysis, that way if they just want a quick set to throw together they can go there, but if they wanna go more in depth, they can click the link to a specific pokemon..