Creative Movesets *Announcement over DP: see first post*
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Author:  tiger10x [ Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:32 pm ]
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That should go in the Double Battles one found here.

It doesn't really matter how creative it is there, but it isn't very creative here anyway.

Author:  Rhapsody [ Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:39 pm ]
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Oh, I thoguht this doubled for creative DBs as well as SBs. As I put, it was sorta random. Im not really a thinker. :P


Author:  sN0wBaLL [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:02 am ]
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Awww, I was hoping to get my second favourite Pokemon into the HoF :P

I thought of having a more powerful attacking move, like Surf, but then Toxic and Whirlpool are necessary for toxi-trapping. Without Whirlpool, the opponent can easily switch to a Heal-beller like Blissey. Amnesia is necessary as well. What about Rest then? Would it seriously reduce Wailord's staying power, by making it that much more vulnerable? :?

As for your sets, Gardevoir~, they look pretty good for a double battle, but they don't seem to be creative enough, like what tiger10x said. Have a go at the Double Battle Teams thread though :wink:

Author:  tiger10x [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:32 pm ]
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I felt like spending some time on the Wailord so I looked over Wailord's stats and moves and all that stuff again and came up with some important stuff.

Needed moves:

Healing Move
Defense Move
Attack Move
Hold Move

Too much for one Pokemon. I mean come on, it's the biggest one, at least let it have six or something. :P

Rest. You kind of need to restore health, and Rest is the only move Wailord can learn to do it. However, since you don't have any chance of defending yourself further or attacking while asleep, you can use a Chesto.

My sights on using a Chesto Berry for the Hold Item aren't too good though. It would give you a big advantage at first, but for later Rests you won't have any protection. While you're asleep you're protected from Special Attacks from Amnesia, but you're open to Physical. To help that, you'd need Curse or Defense Curl. However, that would take out another move, making it impossible to attack and hold them from switching.

Shell Bell isn't going to happen for recovery either. Wailord has way too much HP and not enough attacking power for that to happen. But if you used Curse instead of Amnesia, you'd have Attacking power to gain some HP. Although, you'd need to have 252 HP, 252 Special Defense, and 6 Defense EV's and a Careful Nature similar to what you first mentioned. But Wailord's HP would have to higher that type of strategy to work, but it all just contradicts itself in the end. That won't work.

With Leftovers, you get the extra HP, but nothing much else. Again though, when you're still asleep, your opponent will switch to the type of Sweeper you didn't defend for and do just enough damage to stop you from getting back to what you need. That's why Whirlpool is so important because it's Wailord's only possible move to stop the opponent from switching. Therefore, you need Rest and Whirlpool.

So you get stuck with:

252 Defense; 252 Special Defense; 6 HP

That proves to look to be a better defensive stat set than the others.

You also get stuck with the following moves because there are no other possible ones that Wailord can learn to make it work:


Wailord just can't learn the moves and just doesn't have the stuff needed to make the Toxi-trap and stall to work. You can't fit in a better attacking move, as it's all necessary to the strategy.

It's more of a one-time Toxi-user and that's it. That's the only place where Rest isn't important. You need to get into the better position and trap a Pokemon that can't hurt you quickly. Otherwise, you'd put Surf there. But the fact that your defenses are low when you get into the battle is bad. Low defenses lead to the low HP at the begining, and as you get the Special Defense up, you'll need to use Rest. That's also where Chesto can come in, but it only makes more of a one-timer.

Also, about the Nature, I don't think many will try to burn Wailord, so it'd probably be best to have Oblivious. Either way, I don't think that anyone would try to Attract or Burn a Wailord.

In general, I have two other types to try:

{wailord} @ Chesto
Bold / Oblivious
EV's: 252 Defense; 252 Special Defense; 6 HP
- Toxic
- Rest
- Whirlpool
- Amnesia

For the one-time offers. After, get Amnesia up before Toxic, but not entirely Whirlpool.

{wailord} @ Leftovers
Bold / Oblivious
EV's: 252 Defense; 129 Special Defense; 129 Special Attack
- Toxic
- Surf
- Amnesia
- Whirlpool

Lacks the ability to heal, so you need Amnesia up very quickly, perhaps before a switch on you and then Whirlpool and Toxic. I seriously don't think it would work though.

What do you think, test both or just the top? I'll get the results back in about two days though, as I'll be a little busy. Basically, it can't be improved much, but it doesn't need much to get into the HoF. :wink:

Author:  sN0wBaLL [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:45 am ]
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I'm surprised you spent time to think of improvements for my Wailord. Thanks :P

However, I have no idea which of the two sets you proposed are better though. The second seems to be more reliable, but then again the opponent can easily switch to a Heal-Beller or a Steel and Toxic would be useless. Still, there's Surf for some offensive cover...

The first is closer to the strategy I thought of at first, but with a one-use Chesto Berry attached, it might not last long. I would suggest testing both ( :cry: )but do take your time :wink:

Author:  Rhapsody [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:35 pm ]
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I thought of something I sure hope is creative.
{gorebyss} Lefties
252 Sp. Def, 252 Def, 6 Hp
Calm/ Swift Swim (abitlity has nothing to do w/ moveset)

1.Clamp (more powerful than Whirlpool btw and with slightly better accuracy)
2.Iron Defense
4. Toxic
I hope nobody thought of using Gorebyss as a Toxi-Trapper/Tank. If this is decent, GO ME! If it isnt, I dont mind. These things surface to my head continually.


Author:  Sneaky Sneasel [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:00 pm ]
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That's 5 can only have 4.

Author:  Rhapsody [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:02 pm ]
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No, its 4. I forgot to put a line between the nature/ability.


Author:  Sneaky Sneasel [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:06 pm ]
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Oh, ok then. It looked like 5 though to me :lol:

Author:  tiger10x [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:18 pm ]
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For the Gorebyss, you'd be pretty useless against Steel types and they could just easily Roar you away, similar to Wailord, only more emphasis on Roar. Also, if you don't get the right Iron Defense or Amnesia predicted, you're near doomed. You don't have a very good way of healing yourself, too, so that hurts it more. Just mainly what applies for Wailord applies for that. The EV's, Nature and that looks good to go. I can test it. :wink:

Wailord results are better than the previous. I tested the second one and it worked better to my surprise. I also found it to work well if I took off Whirlpool for Rest and switched in a Dugtrio instead. You can add the second set to the HoF the way it is, no changes done.

Author:  sN0wBaLL [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:43 pm ]
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Thanks tiger. I've give you some credit for Wailord's moveset as well.

For the Gorebyss, it's the same strategy with Wailord, except that it has Iron Defense on as well. Non-standard enough for a Gorebyss, I say, so it's good enough for testing :wink:

Author:  tiger10x [ Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:09 pm ]
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Gorebyss results:

Does well, just like it does with BPing, although without the BP. The only problem, a major problem, is that it can't heal itself as well as it could if it had a Healing move instead of Clamp. Clamp traps it though, so you're not going to take that off. Basically the same as Wailord, although already said. You just have to watch out if you get big damage early and you can't get out of that. Good enough to be added to the HoF though.


I was thinking for a Cacturne set for a while and got this out of it. It's not entirely creative, but it has a little more to it than the Standard. It

{cacturne} @ Leftovers
Timid / Sand Veil
EV's: 252 Special Defense; 129 Defense; 129 HP
- Leech Seed
- Grasswhistle
- Spikes
- Protect

Just switch out if they have Insomnia. Make them Sleep and load Spikes. Leech Seed and then Grasswhistle and Protect until they switch again or die. Also pretty useless against sweepers that are already ready to get you. I'll wait for another opinion though, as I made this set when I wasn't really thinking straight.

Author:  sN0wBaLL [ Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:58 pm ]
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The Cacturne looked promising at first sight. After which I feel that Leech Seed isn't going to do much. Anything with decent healing moves like Rest, Softboiled, etcetera are going to laugh at Leech Seed's damage, unless you get them to sleep first. Still, they wake and heal, and you efforts would be wasted. You also have to watch out for Grass Pokemon, since Leech Seed would not work on them (I think).

Test it out though :wink:

EDIT: Added the Gorebyss to the HoF. There is already one in the HoF though, and you are supposed to say why your moveset is better than the other actually :P

Anyway, congratulations Gardy.

Author:  tiger10x [ Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:35 pm ]
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Cacturne did reasonably well, probably good enough for HoF standards. It would easily get owned by Subs, but I just switch out. Grasswhistle's inaccuracy doesn't help much, but it can survive attacks pretty well. The only really annoying thing was that almost everyone on NB now won't play unless Sleep Clause is on. (That's when only one Pokemon on a single team can be asleep. Rest doesn't count. Then, if you use a Sleeping move, it'll fail anyway, even if it's Spore. Pretty weak IMO.) But I got by it and Leech Seed owned a whole team once. Another bad thing was the HP replenishing other than Leech Seed. But, all in all, it's better when you don't leave it in much and have it as a backup to problems. Better than it might look to you.

And yeah, Leech Seed doesn't work on Grass Pokemon.

Also, I was thinking about the HoF and the same Pokemon not being allowed. There are a few duplicates in there, Raichu for instance. As the Standard sets have multiples, I don't see why the HoF can't. ;)

Author:  Orre_Master [ Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:10 pm ]
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Blissey @ Brightpowder
Serene Grace
Calm Nature
(252 SDF, 252 HP, 6 DF)
Double Team
Seiemic Toss

Brightpowder lowers your opponents accuracy by 16% plus the use of Double Team 8+8+8+8+8+8= 48+16=64


36% and Substitute! You can then Toxic them and Sesmic Toss away!

Weaknesses: Ghost Pokemon, Steel Pokemon, Poison Pokemon.

Author:  sN0wBaLL [ Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:51 pm ]
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Cacturne added then. Regarding your last point about the HoF, no one said that the same Pokemon wasn't allowed; you just had to explain why your set is better. That's a rule set by papersun, and I plan to abide by it. However, you should know by now that if a set deserves to be in the HoF, it goes in, regardless of whether the Pokemon is already in the HoF or not :wink:

The Blissey? I'm quite fine with it, but I'll wait for a second opinion.

Author:  tiger10x [ Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:45 am ]
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Okay, I've seen a similar Blissey a lot in NetBattle. Blissey's are pretty common and usually have a similar set. However, you're extremely emphasizing the Special Defense, although with that set, Blissey will have about 50 or so Defense. It'll get owned by almost any Physical attack before it gets Double Team up and Aerial Ace after. Also, I believe Natural Cure would work better if you got Burned or Toxiced yourself. Heal Bell/Aromatherapy is great on Blissey, although it won't fit your strategy. Either way, you can't heal yourself at all. Even if you get hit to only about half HP with Double Team up and try to Sub, you'll only be able to live through it once, and have to switch out if you don't want to have it faint.

I'd suggest something like Leftovers (although it takes off BrightPowder), Bold Nature, 252 Def., 129 Spec. Def., and 129 HP.

Although I like pointing out the worsts, I'll test it. :P

And about the double Pokemon, I was under the impression that it would either replace or something like come down to which works better and the worst leaves.

Edit (Blissey results):

Did like most other Toxic Blisseys. However, Double Team instead of Softboiled wasn't good. The problems were almost exactly like I said. Nope.

Author:  sN0wBaLL [ Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:07 pm ]
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tiger10x wrote:
And about the double Pokemon, I was under the impression that it would either replace or something like come down to which works better and the worst leaves.

Like you said, if each Pokemon can have more than one "Standard" set, there shouldn't be a problem with a Pokemon having more than one "Creative" set :P

Anyway, thanks for trying, Orre_Master.

Author:  tiger10x [ Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:26 pm ]
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An idea I was thinking of when I was a little bored:

{espeon} @ Leftovers
Timid / Synchronize
EV's: 252 HP; 129 Defense; 129 Speed
- Calm Mind
- Reflect
- Psychic
- Bite

Basically to boost defenses to survive and then you sweep. Murdered by Physical Sweepers before you get Reflect up. Also not very good against Steels before Calm Mind.

Not totally creative, but it's not the standard. It's not at all common or anything either in NetBattle play, too. But then again, almost every "competitive" team uses at least one Skarmory, Blissey, Snorlax, Starmie/Alakazam, and a Legend/Uber.

Author:  tessa7338 [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:20 am ]
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... Not really. All my various NB teams have usually no {skarmory} / {blissey} / {snorlax} / {starmie} / {alakazam} or legends. (Except for the team on my Trainer Card that is.)

Here's one which I hope is original enough. I've been trying to get a moveset onto the HoF for ages and I think this should cut it.

{dragonite} @ Lefties (THIS A MUST)
Jolly (THIS A MUST TOO) | Inner Focus
Filler (Offensive e.g. Wing Atk)

Don't worry, the Lefties will cancel out Sandstorm. I've tried Sandstorm-Lefties hundreds of times. This guy might be prone to Substitute, but I guess you could get in Toxic before that happens... or could you? That's why the nature is Jolly (+Spd -Sp. Atk).

Hope this cuts it. This is the best I've come up with in a while and I hope it at least makes it onto the test list.

Author:  sN0wBaLL [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:39 am ]
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Alright, test both then, if tiger10x has no objections. The Espeon isn't that creative after all, but it's non-standard enough :P

Author:  tiger10x [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:32 pm ]
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By "competitive" I meant people who think they are good because they have good Pokemon. Metagross is another. That portion of battlers takes up a lot of NetBattle.

Anyway, I tested the Espeon but Dragonite should get a little more testing, as it's strategy needs more time to test. I'll edit it in later anyway.

Personally, I don't really care for testing one that I made myself because it's just one of those things. Espeon doesn't really work too well, but I didn't think it would. It was pretty vulnerable to Physical Attacks anyway, so no.


Dragonite's results are okay. I used Brick Break for the filler for Ices and 252 Special Defense, 129 Speed, 129 Attack for EV's for the best results. I liked it when I saw but it's pretty hard to get going. I like it anyway though. Good enough for HoF standards.

Author:  sN0wBaLL [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:45 pm ]
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Added tessa's Dragonite to the Hall of Fame. Congratulations :D

Author:  tessa7338 [ Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:40 am ]
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Creative Movesets Hall of Fame wrote:
{dragonite} @ Lefties | Inner Focus | Jolly Nature
Wrap - Toxic - Sandstorm - Brick Break
EVs: 252 Sp. Def 129 Spd 129 Atk
Submitted by: tessa7338

WAHOO!!! I can finally sleep in peace tonight. Phew.

But I'll continue to contribute if I think of anything good. I also have a bit of time for testing if you're shorthanded, so tell me if you need extra testers.

PM me if you're still interested

Author:  JsXtm [ Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:08 am ]
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{snorlax} @ Lefties | Immunity | Jolly Nature
Rollout - Body Slam - Defense Curl - Belly Drum
EVs: 252 Def 252 Speed 6 Sp. Def

I'm unsure if this is actually creative, but it's a somewhat different take on Snorlax. With my Snorlax at about level 80, I swept Lance in his second, tougher version (FR), using 3 PP; one each on Defense Curl, Belly Drum, and Rollout. Use Defense Curl and Belly Drum once each, then use Rollout; if it misses, either use it again, or switch over to Body Slam. Of the four moves, Body Slam is the least important; I'd really like to replace it with Swift (to counter evasion techniques, but Snorlax doesn't learn it), or a recovery move (but Snorlax only learns Rest, and I don't want to go to sleep).

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