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 Competitive Movesets Guide v.2 
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Dragon Tamer
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THIS guide is different from the Standard Movesets Guide because this guide is for competitive play. I collected these from multiple sources including Smogon , lolstop, and Groudonforums. Use the Ctrl+F to find the pokemon you are looking for. Enjoy. You have a standard I haven't used, post it. If there are any fixes some where in the spelling or grammar give me a hit. I know Baton Pass is probably spelled wrong somewhere in there. These Sets are insanely easy to understand. Not done yet..but getting there. These sets aren't original ideas by me. So don't think I made these sets up. They were collected through a few sites and filtered down to the better sets for each pokemon.

EDIT: I Added a truck load of new sets and editted the older ones while some have yet to change.

Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 220 HP / 96 Def / 80 SAtk / 114 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Magical Leaf / Razor leaf
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder
- Substitute
*Powder, Sub, Seed, Own.

Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 220 HP / 96 Def / 80 Atk / 114 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Sludge bomb
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder
- Substitute
*Powder, Sub, Seed, Own.

Charizard (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Substitute / Flamethrower
- Belly Drum
- Hidden Power [Flying] / Rock slide / Hidden Power [Rock]
*Physical Sweeper. Drum then sweep.

Blastoise (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 102 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
*Spin away seeds and spikes. Haze away stat boosts.

Butterfree (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Compoundeyes
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Spd / 30 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Substitute
- Psychic
*Compound Eyes makes this pokemon hott. Powder, Sub, Spore.

Beedrill (M) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Att / 6 HP
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Sludge Bomb
- Brick Break
*Dance then own. Gets walled EXTREMELY hard by Weezing and Skarmory though.

Pidgeot (M) @ Choice band
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 236 Atk / 26 HP / 248 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Aerial Ace
- Quick Attack
- Return
*Choice Sweeping.

Raticate (M) @ Choice Band / Leftovers
Trait: Run Away
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Super Fang
- Quick Attack / Thunder Wave
- Return
- Shadow Ball
*Leftovers when T-Wave and Super Fang are involved.

Fearow (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drill Peck
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Quick Attack
- Return
*Choice Sweeping.

Arbok (M) @ Choice Band / Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Ghost] / Glare
*Choice Sweeping or just Sweeping with Para support.

Raichu (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Static
EVs: 104 Atk / 252 Spd / 154 SAtk
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Encore / Wish / Hidden Power [Grass / Ice] / Surf
*Encore/Wish can help with the rest of the team. HP:Grass for Swampy. Surf for grounds that switch in on a Sub. Great counter for BlissSkarm

Sandslash (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 30 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Hidden Power [Bug / Ghost]
*Dance then Sweep. Needs a Speed Pass...sometimes.

Nidoqueen (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Poison Point
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Sludge Bomb / Rock Slide
- Shadow ball
*Choice Sweeping.

Nidoking (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Poison Point
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb / Rock Slide
*Choice Sweeping.

Clefable (M) @ Leftovers ** Kaiserfeable
Trait: Cute Charm
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 62 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Softboiled
*BoltBeam Sweeping.

Ninetales (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Spd / 82 SAtk
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Confuse Ray
- Flamethrower
- Substitute
*Wisp, Confuse, Sub, Burn.

Wigglytuff (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cute Charm
EVs: 196 Def / 252 SAtk / 62 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Wish
- Fake Tears / Subtitute / Thunder Wave
*BoltBeam...that is it.

Vileplume (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 10 HP / 248 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Solar Beam
- Sunny Day
- Hidden Power [Fire]
*Meh...Aromatherapy is an option. Sunny Day, Powder, Beam and Burn.

Parasect (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Effect Spore
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Atk / 38 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Sludge Bomb
*Spore, Dance, sweep. Speed Pass plz.

Venomoth (M) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Shield Dust
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Psychic
- Sleep Powder
- Substitute
*Powder, Sub, Speed/Sub Pass.

Dugtrio (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide
- Aerial Ace
*Choice Sweeping.

Persian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Limber
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hypnosis
- Return
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
*Hypnosis, Sub, sweep.

Golduck (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Psychic / Hypnosis
*CM then sweep. Cast sleep on problems.

Golduck (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 12 HP / 120 Atk / 252 Spd / 126 SAtk
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Calm Mind
- Cross Chop
- Ice Beam
- Surf
*Cross Chop for the highly likely Regice, Blissey, or Snorlax switch in. It does 33-35% w/o critical hits on a Lax which is fine for a switch in. Does 31-37% to a Max HP/Def Regice.

Primeape (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 46 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Rock Slide
- Focus punch
- Hidden Power [Ghost / Bug]
*Sub, then sweep.

Primeape (M) @ Choice band
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 46 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock slide
- Cross Chop
- Hidden Power [Ghost / Bug]
*Choice Sweeping

Arcanine (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 34 SAtk
Lonely / Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Flamethrower / Overheat
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Extremespeed
- Howl
*Howl, Sweep.

Poliwrath (M) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Belly Drum
- Brick Break
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Substitute
*Sub, Drum, Sweep.

Alakazam (M) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Ice Punch / Recover
- Psychic
- Thunderpunch / Recover
*CM sweep.

Machamp (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Guts
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 58 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Cross Chop
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug / Ghost]
- Rock slide
*Choice Sweep.

Victreebel (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 196 Spd / 62 SAtk
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
*Dance, sweep.

Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 28 HP / 116 Atk / 148 Spd / 218 SAtk
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Swords Dance
- Sludge Bomb
- Ice Beam
- Surf
*Dance, Sweep.

Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 12 HP / 246 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Substitute
*Great UU/BL Special Sweeper. If you transfer EVs from Sp.Atk to Spd, This thing is faster than CBMence w/o Aerial Ace.

Golem (M) @ Leftovers / Choice band
Trait: Sturdy / Rock Head
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Atk / 38 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute / Explosion / Double edge
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Focus Punch
*Choice Sweeping or just plain Sweeping. Good Physical Wall in UU as long as you avoid E-quake, Focus Punch, and Special Attacks.

Rapidash (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 162 Atk / 200 Spd / 148 SAtk
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Hypnosis
- Iron Tail
*Hypnosis, then Sweep.

Slowbro (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 220 HP / 104 Def / 136 SAtk / 50 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam / Flamethrower / Surf / Psychic
- Rest / Thunderwave
- Ice Beam / Flamethrower / Surf / Psychic
*CM then Sweep, then Rest.

Magneton @ Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 80 HP / 192 Spd / 238 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Metal Sound
- Thunder Wave / Substitute
- Thunderbolt
*Skarm trapper. Best Skarmory Counter, just under Nosepass.

Farfetch'd (M) @ Liechi Berry / Leftovers
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 90 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Agility
- Return
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Swords Dance
*Agility, Dance, sweep if you

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Last edited by Tobey on Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:42 pm, edited 12 times in total.



Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:42 pm
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Pokemon Master
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Wouldn't you want to explain the strategy and what "Competitive Movesets" are? :wink:


Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:21 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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Truestar wrote:
Wouldn't you want to explain the strategy and what "Competitive Movesets" are? :wink:


The strategies are pretty straight forward. If needed he can do that but he was pressed for time.

Competitive Movesets are the standard movesets for pokemon in today's Metagame. Given the current trend, these are the most effective sets.

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Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:31 pm
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Pokemon Master
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Nuetral777 wrote:
Truestar wrote:
Wouldn't you want to explain the strategy and what "Competitive Movesets" are? :wink:


The strategies are pretty straight forward. If needed he can do that but he was pressed for time.


Yes but if you look at many other guides, straightforward or not, they still explain everything. I imagine Tobey is trying to get this Stickied for his 5 minutes of fame, but it isn't close, a lot of work still needs to be done. Great idea no doubt, but it could use a little more, that's what I'm getting to.


Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:05 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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Truestar wrote:
Nuetral777 wrote:
Truestar wrote:
Wouldn't you want to explain the strategy and what "Competitive Movesets" are? :wink:


The strategies are pretty straight forward. If needed he can do that but he was pressed for time.


Yes but if you look at many other guides, straightforward or not, they still explain everything. I imagine Tobey is trying to get this Stickied for his 5 minutes of fame, but it isn't close, a lot of work still needs to be done. Great idea no doubt, but it could use a little more, that's what I'm getting to.


My brother just wants to be helpful. I'm sorry he actually has a life to live. He said he would finish tonight or tomorrow morning. Geez, cut the little guy some slack.

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Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:24 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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Don't stick up for me all the time, Neutral. Mom will get PO'd.

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Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:50 pm
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Pokemon Master
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Okay, I've got a few problems with some of the sets...

Charizard: HP Rock? I think you would be better off with HP Fighting to fight off the Rock Types

Umbreon: Okay I don't get the point of Baton Pass in there, maybe this set will do better:

Umbreon @ Lefties
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Spd
Bite/ Faint Attack
Toxic
Mean Look
Confuse Ray

Mean, Confuse, Toxic, Bite/Faint Attack, simple easy effective.

Houndoom: Fire Blast just ain't worth it it's accuracy is to low just stick with flamethrower.

Flygon: Quick Attack? Try something like Steel Wing in there Personally I think this set would do better:

Flygon @ Leichi
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spdf/6 HP
Substitute
EQ
Rock Slide
HP (Flying/Bug/Ghost)

Sub to activate Leichi and then sweep.


Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:14 pm
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Ace Trainer
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i honestly dont see the point of this... its no different than the standard movesets thread in the kanto revisited section... its like spam on a large scale, taking one thing and doing it over again on another forum... we already have a thread identical to this one with minor differences in sets...

this is aside from the fact that on a certain level i object to a "general movesets" thread covering all the pokes in the first place... first of all, it gives some people the idea that those sets are "all purpose" otherwise they wouldnt be there... pokes and sets need to be specifically tuned to fit into the team and role they are thrust into... but even more than that, when you do such a massive movesets list, quality suffers while quantity reigns supreme... what i mean by that is whoever makes the list is trying to compile it as fast as they can, and while they may be careful to try and do a good job, half or more of the sets are likely to be ones thought up off the top of their head and not playtested or even ever seen used by that person...

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Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:05 pm
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Nuetral777 wrote:
Truestar wrote:
Nuetral777 wrote:
Truestar wrote:
Wouldn't you want to explain the strategy and what "Competitive Movesets" are? :wink:


The strategies are pretty straight forward. If needed he can do that but he was pressed for time.


Yes but if you look at many other guides, straightforward or not, they still explain everything. I imagine Tobey is trying to get this Stickied for his 5 minutes of fame, but it isn't close, a lot of work still needs to be done. Great idea no doubt, but it could use a little more, that's what I'm getting to.


My brother just wants to be helpful. I'm sorry he actually has a life to live. He said he would finish tonight or tomorrow morning. Geez, cut the little guy some slack.


And helpful, he sorta has been although Lynx brought up a good point. This is MUCH like the Standard Sets. Thanks but it really isn't needed. I myself appreciate the effort and time he put into it, but a little more could have been great. You say time was an issue? Well it looks like he added more but I don't see any explainations.

Encarta wrote:
Guide: help somebody learn something: to teach somebody or oversee training in something

It doesn't offer any hints or descriptions of any sort. It doesn't give stratedgy either. Let me take one example to show you what I'm getting at.

Absol (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 42 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Taunt
- Return / Batton Pass
- Shadow Ball
- Swords Dance
Sratedgy: Absol has a high attack all around, and splitting the EV's surely help. Start off by rasing your attack with Swords Dance. Then, depending on type, start hitting. Speed will also help, seeing as absol's defenses aren't always great.


Some of those sets I don't see any helpful things in there. Ice Beam on Rayquaza? And Dragon Claw!? That's splitting uneccessary EV's right there, and not to mention Sp. Attack's are a major mistake on Rayquaza. Speed and attack do all. Even without concentrating on Attack EV's, his attack boosts incredibly.

There are just some things that need to be done if he wishes for this to be stickied. And saying, "He wasn't hoping for a sticky" can't be true. Who would type ALL of that, only for it to be moved back page by page, he obviously wants to contribute. So works needs to be done.

I'm not bashing your brother in any way, I'm simply pointing out suggestions for the future. There is no need to get on the defensive.


Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:45 pm
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Psypoke Legend
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Firstly, it's obvious that you've put a lot of time and effort into this. Thank you.

Secondly, while they were not so nicely conveyed, I have to agree with a few points that the others are making. It is a little bit similar to the Standard Movesets Guide - both have a similar purpose to achieve. But you have raised some good points; personally I don't use Netbattle and don't know the "current trend" of battling. Certainly this guide gives you a bit more insight into the range of roles a Pokemon can play in the team.

Thirdly, I think the moderators and the admins will decide on what is needed and what is not needed.

I'll see about putting them on the site, but as I've already said, some of them are similar to movesets already on there. If you can distinguish this a bit more, I'll be happy to sticky this for a while.

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Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:42 pm
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Lite Four
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I do think that a lot of effort and time was spent on this, so give the guy some credit for this guys. I'm sure papersun will agree, since we did the Standard Movesets Guide together :D

The SMG was written to strike a balance between in-game battling and competitive battling, so some of the sets may not be suitable for today's Metagame. However, this guide still has several similarities to the SMG, so like TK said you'll need to distinguish this a little, probably by explaning a little on the strategies involved. Take your time to do this :D

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Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:08 pm
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I am glad you appreciate the effort I put into it. The main thing that separates this from the SMG is that this moeset guide is way more up to date AND applies to Competitive play. SMG looks like it is more focused on Ingame. The EV Spreads are 252/252/6 or 252/128/128 on a lot of the set in the SMG. There is also the use of Shell Bell and Chesto Berries on a lot of pokemon. Those are decent hold items but they are rarely used now as pokemon that have Rest have the defenses to take more than 2 hits while sleeping and People rely on Leftovers constant HP recovery as opposed to the recovery after dealing damage(esp. after factoring in the idea of switching to get the advantage over the pokemon). There are many SunnyBeaming/ThunderDancing Sets on pokemon that don't need/can't use them. It is obvious that the SMG was made for the old old old metagame and ingame teams. This Moveset Guide is current in terms of the metagame and has more effecient EV spreads, movesets, and natures.

I, in no way, mean to replace the SMG. It would make more sense to have the SMG renamed as an In-Game Moveset Guide and this guide as the Competitive Moveset Guide. The SMG could be used for Battle Fronteir/Battle Tower while this guide could be used for NetBattle, RSBot, Competitive Local Tournaments. Why take down something that hasn't lost its usefullness. The SMG has easier to obtain sets and EV spreads however those sets and spreads don't efficiently use the pokemon's stats to their advantage however that is needed when your are just playing against the battle fronteir or one of your friends. The Competitive guide uses harder to obtain movesets and EV Spreads because they are efficient and that gives them the edge in the metagame. The faster you can set-up the high your chance to win.

ALL sets were play tested. I'm getting to the strategies however you seriously are being rather closed minded. With SkarmBliss running around like crazy in the Metagame having a pokemon with All Attacking Moves or All Special Moves is something to be careful about. You don't want to get stuck with a Pokemon that can't do anything to another pokemon. I'm still trying to get through with it. I can't be on a computer ALL day as I have prior responsibilities. You should take into an account that I am working as fast as possible and trying to stay accurate. None of these sets are off of the top of my head. All of them have been play tested. They have to be in order to get the EVs fixed the way they are. Not to mention I have used nearly all of these sets before. I'm still in the process of fixing them as some of them need some changes.

To describe the strategy is hard because they are so simple to understand. Mean Look then Baton Pass. You just trapped the opponent and switched to a pokemon that has the advantage. These Sets were created by the most experienced battlers. I'm not the creator of any set. Nuetral was the first and only person I know to use a Heal Bell Granbull..but I'm confident someone had the idea before him. Each pokemon has been used by either myself ot Neutral. There is no need to elaborate completely on a pokemon's strategy either. A short and sweet little description of the set-up is all that is needed. I am hoping people here have more intellegence then what you are implying. People can see a combination of moves and think,"Oh, those work together like this." The only time that won't happen is when someone doesn't know the full use of the move itself(Maybe have the site make an attackdex). Maybe I'm giving people too much credit but I seriously doubt that I have to go into such detail with people. Especially with such simple sets.

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Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:43 pm
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ShadowFlygon wrote:
Okay, I've got a few problems with some of the sets...

Charizard: HP Rock? I think you would be better off with HP Fighting to fight off the Rock Types

Because Earthquake does that.


Umbreon: Okay I don't get the point of Baton Pass in there, maybe this set will do better:

Umbreon @ Lefties
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Spd
Bite/ Faint Attack
Toxic
Mean Look
Confuse Ray

No. This set fails because One Sub and you've lost. Umbreon has no attacking stats. Thus offensive attacks are useless. Baton Pass passes the Mean Look, Allows Umbreon to get out of being trapped itself, AND you can use wish THEN Baton Pass to allow Umbreon's slow self to take a hit then the new pokemon gets a free health recovery. Hmm...that sounds way better than what this set could do.

Houndoom: Fire Blast just ain't worth it it's accuracy is to low just stick with flamethrower.

Flamethrower/Fire Blast just matters on your preference. He will probably fix that. I agree that Doom has the Sp.Atk power to make Flamethrower a deadly attack.

Flygon: Quick Attack? Try something like Steel Wing in there Personally I think this set would do better:

Flygon @ Leichi
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spdf/6 HP
Substitute
EQ
Rock Slide
HP (Flying/Bug/Ghost)

Sub to activate Leichi and then sweep.

So you sub then die? Flygon's type combo and ability make him a GODLY switch in on a pokemon that just used Rock Slide/Earthquake. Flygon also lacks power in itself to be very productive. That is why we give it a choice band. With that Earthquake, Rock Slide, HP:Flying/Bug, and Quick Attack hit all types. Quick Attack can take out those pokemon that are low on HP yet faster than Flygon and could OHKO it. I.E. Alakazam. And Steel Wing isn't needed because Earthquake handles Rock Types.


Sorry for being a big brother here but I mean, did you even think before you posted? I agree with the Houndoom thing but still. You should have looked into the sets before shooting off about them.

If you have a problem with the set, THINK ABOUT IT FIRST. Most of the time the problems you see are fixed within the set itself and you then have no problem. Again I'm sorry, but I don't want people ganging up on my little brother...or maybe I am just over protective. Just be nicer with the complaints and DO give him some credit for making this thing.

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Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:10 pm
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Pokemon Master
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Tobey wrote:
I'm getting to the strategies however you seriously are being rather closed minded.


This needs to stop right now. All I was doing is giving you suggestions, and Neutral777 had to give his uneccessary input. I appreciate the time, this is a good guide. But work needs to be done. 777 obviously being the close minded one, doesn't get that through his head. Tobey, from the bottom of my heart, this is a good guide. I was simply giving you suggestions that's all. Now try to get that through to your brother please.

Now I look like a selfish idiot in front of all of Psypoke, just because your brother didn't think about my post. Can this please stop now? I wasn't offending you in any way Tobey.


Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:57 am
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I say u all stop it its a good guide indeed and for something this long that took so much time a little help with the explanitory stuff wouldn't hurt lets give this guy a hand who's with me? A little pitching in here and there would go a long way I actually see what Tobey is doing and I'm all for it see I have some suggestions to make to myself but.......

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Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:36 am
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5506 wrote:
I say u all stop it


And what authority might you have? You aren't included in this, this is between Tobey, 777, and I. The ONLY others that should interfere is the Elite Four, and the Hoenn Gym Leaders. NOBODY ELSE.


Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:10 am
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I'M saying you guys need to relax. Instead of arguing with him, how about giving him some POSITIVE and effective feedback? There's nothing wrong with feedback as long as you're positive about it.

That's all I'm going to say. I just don't want to see this thread end up getting closed since you guys can't agree with each other and are being negative about it. I know Tobey put a lot of work into this thread and I don't want to see it go out in vain.

EDIT:

Truestar wrote:
And what authority might you have? You aren't included in this, this is between Tobey, 777, and I. The ONLY others that should interfere is the Elite Four, and the Hoenn Gym Leaders. NOBODY ELSE.


That, right there, is what I'm talking about.

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=02:47:08= <pop10> probably means your staff or soethingwich in that case i could getyou fired or i could report to nintendo how bad of website you run because you dont follow your own rules on the chats


Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:15 am
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Tobey wrote:

Rayquaza @ Leftovers
Trait: Air Lock
EVs: 14 HP / 244 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Claw
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt


I still sit here and think how you came up with this, I honestly do. Dragon Claw and Ice Beam on the same Rayquaza? Not only is Ice Beam effective against more types, it's also quad-effective against more types. The only super-effective type that Ice-Beam can't cover is Kingdra, and even then it's would still be able to take it out quickly with it's SAtk laden Ice Beam. I think that this guy deserves more veristality, and should there for exchange Dragon Claw for Earthquake. This is the change in effectiveness that your Raquaza had compared to mine.

Yours
Dragon
Flying
Grass
Ground
Ice
Bug
Steel
Water
8 types covered

Mine
Dragon
Flying
Electric
Rock
Grass
Ground
Ice
Bug
Steel
Water
Poison
Fire
12 types covered

Obviously you'd have to change the nature to something like Mild. Or you could keep the nature and instead of Earthquake use Surf. You'd lose two of the Super-Effective types, but every thing would benefit from Modest. This, of course, is my opinion.

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Last edited by Siphai on Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:16 pm
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Skull Kid wrote:
I'M saying you guys need to relax. Instead of arguing with him, how about giving him some POSITIVE and effective feedback? There's nothing wrong with feedback as long as you're positive about it.
Truestar wrote:
And what authority might you have? You aren't included in this, this is between Tobey, 777, and I. The ONLY others that should interfere is the Elite Four, and the Hoenn Gym Leaders. NOBODY ELSE.


That, right there, is what I'm talking about.


I gave positive feedback, what I'm getting to is 777 doesn't understand what I meant in my first post. He took it as I was saying the guide sucked, and I need to back off. I was simply giving him a suggestion to add to the guide. Does nobody see that? :?


Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:19 pm
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Truestar was fine. I knew what he meant. I should give SOME sort of description and detail however I've been rakcing my brain...either I'm too familiar with the sets or they are just too simple to explain. I don't think going into detail on the pokemon itself(ie, mentioning its good points and bad points) is nessecary because people who pick the pokemon will have already made their mind. Also, some pokemon are clearly more useful than others and I don't want to post something completely negative as I see all pokemon decent given the right support on a team.

Neutral got a serious beatdown. He is being over protective again. It is understandable to stick up for your younger brother but I mean, really, Truestar wasn't in the wrong. I'm off to correct smoe more stuff until Soccer Practice.

I've been trying to find that Special Rayquaza...It is gawd awful. Thank you for whoever spotted it.

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Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:45 pm
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Nuetral777 wrote:
ShadowFlygon wrote:
Okay, I've got a few problems with some of the sets...

Charizard: HP Rock? I think you would be better off with HP Fighting to fight off the Rock Types

Because Earthquake does that.


Umbreon: Okay I don't get the point of Baton Pass in there, maybe this set will do better:

Umbreon @ Lefties
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Spd
Bite/ Faint Attack
Toxic
Mean Look
Confuse Ray

No. This set fails because One Sub and you've lost. Umbreon has no attacking stats. Thus offensive attacks are useless. Baton Pass passes the Mean Look, Allows Umbreon to get out of being trapped itself, AND you can use wish THEN Baton Pass to allow Umbreon's slow self to take a hit then the new pokemon gets a free health recovery. Hmm...that sounds way better than what this set could do.

Houndoom: Fire Blast just ain't worth it it's accuracy is to low just stick with flamethrower.

Flamethrower/Fire Blast just matters on your preference. He will probably fix that. I agree that Doom has the Sp.Atk power to make Flamethrower a deadly attack.

Flygon: Quick Attack? Try something like Steel Wing in there Personally I think this set would do better:

Flygon @ Leichi
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spdf/6 HP
Substitute
EQ
Rock Slide
HP (Flying/Bug/Ghost)

Sub to activate Leichi and then sweep.

So you sub then die? Flygon's type combo and ability make him a GODLY switch in on a pokemon that just used Rock Slide/Earthquake. Flygon also lacks power in itself to be very productive. That is why we give it a choice band. With that Earthquake, Rock Slide, HP:Flying/Bug, and Quick Attack hit all types. Quick Attack can take out those pokemon that are low on HP yet faster than Flygon and could OHKO it. I.E. Alakazam. And Steel Wing isn't needed because Earthquake handles Rock Types.


Sorry for being a big brother here but I mean, did you even think before you posted? I agree with the Houndoom thing but still. You should have looked into the sets before shooting off about them.

If you have a problem with the set, THINK ABOUT IT FIRST. Most of the time the problems you see are fixed within the set itself and you then have no problem. Again I'm sorry, but I don't want people ganging up on my little brother...or maybe I am just over protective. Just be nicer with the complaints and DO give him some credit for making this thing.
I did think about it first, and I'm sorry if I sounded mean. But a few more things about the sets:

Umbreon: Well when you put it that way it looks better but never know when it can be foiled by an 00ber tht came out of nowhere, turst me even with it's defensive skills maxed out I've seen Umbreon's take OHKOs.

Flygon: Hmm, you know I thought it through and that set I suggested can easily be recked, but I thought it through again and I've come up with yet another set that will probably prevent having to rely on a Quick Attack:

@ Lefties
EQ
Rock Slide
Sand Tomb
Dragonbreath

Here's an interesting set, use Sand Tomb to prevent switching, and then use Dragonbreath until they're paralyzed then sweep with Rock Slide or EQ, but because Ice Beam's a common move it can be easily be messed up, I suggest this set if you ABSOLUTELY KNOW that your opponent's current poke instnt equipped with Ice Beam.

Charizard: thought about it and yeah HP Fighting is pointless, Steel Wing would be better incase a Aerodactyl pops out of nowhere and also, thought yuo have lefties, a rock-type attack can ruin you after using belly drum, this set seems like it depends on the chance that your opponent doesn't have Rock Slide or HP Rock on them.

Other than that I have no problems, I'm not trying to say that the guide stinks, I'm trying to point out the problems I have with the sets, that's all so don't take offense please.


Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:24 pm
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Tobey wrote:
Truestar was fine. I knew what he meant. I should give SOME sort of description and detail however I've been rakcing my brain...either I'm too familiar with the sets or they are just too simple to explain. I don't think going into detail on the pokemon itself(ie, mentioning its good points and bad points) is nessecary because people who pick the pokemon will have already made their mind. Also, some pokemon are clearly more useful than others and I don't want to post something completely negative as I see all pokemon decent given the right support on a team.

Neutral got a serious beatdown. He is being over protective again. It is understandable to stick up for your younger brother but I mean, really, Truestar wasn't in the wrong. I'm off to correct smoe more stuff until Soccer Practice.

I've been trying to find that Special Rayquaza...It is gawd awful. Thank you for whoever spotted it.

i think the biggest issue when it comes to explaining the pokemon and the movesets and stuff isnt the order in which you use the moves, most people have figured that out, when you go to explain a poke though, what is much more useful is knowing what its capable of and what its limitations are.... just as a quick example, ill use my choiceband swellow...
the set is pretty simple as is the strategy

{swellow} @ choiceband
adamant | guts
6 HP, 252 attack, 252 speed
return
hp fighting
aerialace
facade

i think anyone can see from the set that you basically start with whatever move will cause the most damage to the target, and if you can, try to switch into a toxic so that facade and guts active, which +stab and choiceband, becomes an almost unstoppable attack (420 pts as compared to 220 pts for the stabed CBd return)...

what useful in an explanation of the pokemon is what its capable of... for example, this thing can outrun and ohko (with return) a standard 'zam, but in about half the cases, its HP fighting is not quite enough to ohko a t-tar (depending on defense evs) so a zam is almost a surething while a t-tar is a gamble... or for example, its return is enough to ko a snorlax in 2 hits (who honestly woulda guessed that? ), but also say what to watch out for, such as just about anything you dont think itll ohko or pokes that might be faster, such as jolteon, electrode, dactyl's or crobats (which w/ choiceband and sludgebomb ohko swellow)

itll end up being quite a bit of work (play testing it against various situations in order to test limitations, what its especially good at, and what it cant quite handle) and a VERY long post, but it will be something very worthwhile and helpful to people who are looking for sets to fit specific jobs within their teams...

edit: btw having just looked at the set you have listed for swellow, you have the nature is jolly, but it says +atk -spatk while jolly is +spd -spatk

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Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:01 pm
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Lynx, thanks for the Swellow thing. I'll fix it.

I don't see the need to post a pokemon's good points only because of the fact that pokemon like Swellow are way better than pokemon like Ditto. Posting the pokemon's strong points would just be saying(in a very fancy way), This pokemon is team worthy while this one isn't. I don't want to ruin the "Fun Teams" aspect of competitive play. Listing the Bad points would do the "weaker" pokemon even worse. Also, people already have a general idea of what a pokemon can do when they enter the competitive environment.

ShadowFlygon: Rock Slide/HP:Rock can handle Aerodactyl. The case for Belly Drum is to catch a pokemon that Charizard can obviously smash. The opponent will switch, you drum, then sweep. NOTE: If this is the kind of description needed then tell me ASAP. The Flygon set is interesting but you see Quick Attack is mainly for Tech purposes. You strike first no matter what. Salac Sweepers can't outpseed a Quick attack. Earthquake, Rock Slide, and HP:Ghost/Bug/Flying hit all types. The only flaw with your set is that they can switch into your Sand Tomb and Ice Beam you then(assuming you don't switch after they do.

My Brother is just being a brother so excuse him on that. I can handle myself, I took all of your comments as help. I'll need help to make sure there are no typos and such.

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Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:50 pm
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Truestar wrote:
5506 wrote:
I say u all stop it


And what authority might you have? You aren't included in this, this is between Tobey, 777, and I. The ONLY others that should interfere is the Elite Four, and the Hoenn Gym Leaders. NOBODY ELSE.


Now thats just rude exluding a fine young Intelegent individual such as myself just because I have fewer posts than the Gym Leaders and Elite Four's :x honestly u should be ashamed such a disrespectful attidude shouldn't be tolerated here gotta learn learn better behivour to your superiors, PCE Out

P.S. I say it doesn't matter how many posts u have everybody has the right to say whatever they want its a free country everybody here is equal and u cant just gudge someone on there number of posts look at me for instance I have more posts than Tobey right but I dont care!

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Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:02 am
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5506 wrote:
Truestar wrote:
5506 wrote:
I say u all stop it


And what authority might you have? You aren't included in this, this is between Tobey, 777, and I. The ONLY others that should interfere is the Elite Four, and the Hoenn Gym Leaders. NOBODY ELSE.


Now thats just rude exluding a fine young Intelegent individual such as myself just because I have fewer posts than the Gym Leaders and Elite Four's :x honestly u should be ashamed such a disrespectful attidude shouldn't be tolerated here gotta learn learn better behivour to your superiors, PCE Out

P.S. I say it doesn't matter how many posts u have everybody has the right to say whatever they want its a free country everybody here is equal and u cant just gudge someone on there number of posts look at me for instance I have more posts than Tobey right but I dont care!
Well, first off, you don't have the authorrity to say things like, "I say u stop it all!" the only people that do have that authority are the E4 and Gym Leaders and that's because they think the topics is outtat control and/or it gett'n too much spam, (there may be other reason's but let's not get into detail.) And second off, not every body on the forums is in the U.S. so technicly it's a free country for you and the people that live the U.S. but might not be for the other members. Third, the Mods & E4 may have more posts than you but post count has nothing to do with it they're qualified for the job that why they are mods and admins, post count has nothing to do with it.


Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:26 am
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