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 Generation V Banlist 
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Ace Trainer
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twistedturtwig, you have summed up just what I was going to say. I now don't mind what he does as he has truly brought it upon himself.

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I agree with what you propose twistedturtwig! Sounds are fair way of testing it. Now we have to decide what the most common moveset would be on each Pokemon: I think for Kingdra the most common would be ChestoRest and for Gorebyss it would be SmashPass. Anyone else have any suggestions for these two?

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Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:24 am
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just thought of this maybe a rain dance team vs. thundurus show down :mrgreen: ??? just to see which should be baned or both ???

edit: maybe thundurus with thunder wave + thunder, DW blaziken with Solarbeam + Poison Jab or Focus Blast and DW absol with a good stab or two + thunder
VS.
DW politoad with Focus Punch + Substitute or toxic + Hydro Pump, SS Kingdra with Hydro Pump + scald or Water Pulse and SS Gorebyss with Swagger + Dive or Aqua Tail or SS Relicanth with smack down + EQ.
giving the both teams other moves that are good on the other pokemon


I am new to competitive battling so I did not get what IceArceus was saying and why is DW Crawdaunt not questioned with its 150% STAB bonus in the rain??? I don't know Crawdaunts tier so I don't know if he is a threat.

???? I think mason posted when I was editing ????
ok maybe just the best of the rain dancers like the ones you (mason) think we should ban and test the other ones that are band like DW blaziken and others like thundurus up to a battle with these soon to be band SS abusers. just saying that if the SS abusers can put up a good fight against these that are band and questioned then that to me proves that they should be band from psypokes.

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Vectors-R-US:
They do it to trigger fan-fictions. Fur da lulz. Cuz you know how those fan stories can get... *shudders*

VladimirMacHolzraum:
So the writers put things in the show just so they can read our screwed-up fanfics? That explains everything


Last edited by azul on Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:43 am, edited 3 times in total.



Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:06 pm
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azul wrote:
just thought of this maybe a rain dance team vs. thundurus show down :mrgreen: ??? just to see which should be baned or both ???


That wouldn't prove anything :/

Admittedly the community here isn't big or active enough to fully and accurately playtest each swift swimmer. There's a few obvious ones that are ban worthy any a few that are easily not. The ones in the middle would probably go to a poll and theorymoning to decide the placement.

Not perfect, but it's probably the best that can be done here.

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Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:35 am
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Personally I wouldn't really care if Thundurus was banned or not. But if I was voting, I would actually say to BAN him because:

1. Great sweeping stats, with base 125 SpA and 111 Spe, as well as a decent 115 Atk. Although it doesn't have a big attacking movepool, its big enough for him to sweep. And not to mention NASTY PLOT.

2. It's got priority Thunder Wave, Taunt, Nasty Plot, and Rain Dance with Prankster. Nuff said.

3. It's helping with the already overcenteralized weather metagame.

But again, I wouldn't care too much if Thundurus remained OU.



But here's a slight topic changer: CHANDELURE. I'm pretty sure that once Shadow Tag is released, Chandelure as a whole will be banned, and not just ST ones (considering what happened to Blaziken).

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Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:02 pm
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just going back to the tutor + DW ability look at this

Attachment:
azulsDWshinxweb.png


this is for real. this is not Photoshopped.
he has magnet rise and he is on Dream world tell me what you think.

the rule made cents to me until now


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deviantART wrote:
Vectors-R-US:
They do it to trigger fan-fictions. Fur da lulz. Cuz you know how those fan stories can get... *shudders*

VladimirMacHolzraum:
So the writers put things in the show just so they can read our screwed-up fanfics? That explains everything


Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:42 pm
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It also learns magnet rise via 4th gen move tutor. Some pokes can come with 1-2 tutor/Gen IV TMs moves in the DW.

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Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:25 am
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Well it appears the new suspect testing is starting:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=155

And the OU suspects are:
Moves/Abilities: Auto-weather Inducing Abilities, Baton Pass
Pokemon: Thundurus, Excadrill (AGAIN), Deoxys-S, Dragonite, Volcarona

The Auto-weather abilities are a no-brainer, and Baton Pass is in since it got a lot better with Shell Smash and Magic Bounce Espeon. Thundurus is in since it got Suspect last round with its cool sweeping stats. Excadrill is back in for the fifth time in a row since very few pokes can wall / outspeed it. But holy lol at Deoxys-S being suspect again since in early B/W everyone thought it would be trash thanks to Team Preview and Magic Bounce/Prankster abilities. But now its a rising threat that was nominated last round, and its back in the voting again. Dragonite is in with its awesome ability Multiscale, and Volcarona is in since its also a rising threat.

Thoughts???

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Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:57 pm
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While I wouldn't hate a total ban on weather abilities, I still think that only a few pokes overall are ban worthy under their said weather. I feel a lot of flames would arise if any of the bans pass.

EDIT: actually I would dislike this ban(s) as it would really begin to differentiate OU from matchup Wifi battling. Auto-weather is quite integrated into what genV battling is, while I can understand certain combos being banned a flat out removal of weather would be counter-productive to competitive battling this gen. Basically OU would be starting back at square 1.

I have high doubts baton pass will be banned. While here are some new abuses with it, there are new counters to it as well, Prankster-taunt, Dragon Tail, Team preview, mean look not BPing etc. and to me it's not heavily enough used in OU to be OP.

Thundurus might be banned. Excadrill I'd lean to no, but if the Sand stream ban passes he'll sink to UU anyways. Deoxys-S and Volcarona I doubt. Dragonite might on multiscale variants alone.

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Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:43 pm
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most of these are not real ubers because some of them can't stand up to the other ubers. ( I am guessing that baning is just sending them to the uber tier )
the auto-weathers and dragonite are stronger, tougher and faster than most other OU pokemon.
in my opinion dragonite is the auto-weather killer.
I understand that we can't let the OU tier get over centralized so maybe a tier between uber and OU like BL is between OU and UU.
I don't see Volcarona as a threat but it could over centralize.
and excadrill is UU if sand stream is gone like masonthechef said.
BP was a baby move that Togetic and Eevee learned ??? why ban it (joking) it has a lot of counters now.
deoxys might be uber stronge but i have never used one so I dont know.

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deviantART wrote:
Vectors-R-US:
They do it to trigger fan-fictions. Fur da lulz. Cuz you know how those fan stories can get... *shudders*

VladimirMacHolzraum:
So the writers put things in the show just so they can read our screwed-up fanfics? That explains everything


Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:47 pm
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Quote:
most of these are not real ubers because some of them can't stand up to the other ubers. ( I am guessing that baning is just sending them to the uber tier )

Banning is sending them to the Uber tier, yes. However, they don't get sent there to be used in Ubers - they get sent there so they are not used in OU.
Let's take...say Garchomp as an example. (I could be wrong on any or all of these points, so if I am, stop me.) In OU, combined with something like Tyranitar, letting you abuse Sand Veil, makes it a deadly Pokemon, with two strong STAB moves (Outrage and Earthquake) and basically lowering all opp's moves to 80% accuracy.
In Ubers, however, there are a lot better physical Dragon-types available, such as Zekrom and Rayquaza, both of which can totally negate Sand Veil's effect (and Rayquaza just negates Sandstorm completely).

The Uber tier is not to make Ubers fair per se - it's to make OU fair.

Auto-Weather abilities: okay, I can kind of see where this is going. I won't blame them if they do, but I'm going to miss Tyranitar if this goes through.
Baton Pass: nah, leave it
Thundurus: already been talked about
Excadrill: It's official - Raijin and Knuckles the Echidna are the two biggest points of controversy in Pokemon.

The rest I don't really have an opinion on as of yet, but I can see why each one is suspect. It'd be funny if Dragonite got banned, though. The thing is, if they do it, will they ban Dragonite altogether, or just Multiscale?

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Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:24 pm
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Well it appears weather once again passes OU. And BATON PASS is now suspect.

And I still don't get how Dragonite became suspect when they could have just nominated Multiscale

*prays that they ban excadrill*

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Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:39 pm
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I think it's because smogon's servers don't have a "ban poke with X ability option" Same goes for Blaziken.

lol 6% wanted to ban perma-hail.

Thinking about it, why isn't Sand Stream+Sandveil on the same team banned under the logic for evasion clause? They have to ban technology to do it, and it's no different then an auto DT.

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Last edited by MasonTheChef on Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:43 pm
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Just to make sure, on psypoke we play only with released DW abilities right? But from which country - some maybe released in Japan but not in the US/UK. Just need to clarify this

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Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:35 pm
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From everywhere, you can trade internationally from the GTS so it's fully possible to obtain worldwide DW abilities.

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Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:42 pm
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IceArceus12 wrote:
Just to make sure, on psypoke we play only with released DW abilities right?


Officially this is correct, however if a tournament host wants to play full DW, that is acceptable. Additionally, if both sides agree to it, full DW matches are acceptable in place of standard rules.

also, first proper BT post since late may WHAT AM I DOING

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Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:18 am
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Thundurus and Excadrill are out of OU now

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread ... ost3897900

This should help patch up OU a bit

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Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:04 am
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I am happy that dragonite is still in :D I didn't think excadrill needed to go but I don't use him much so I don't care.

PO has a clear sky's tier maybe the auto weather endusers need a tier like that cuz they are fun but they are to big for OU??.

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deviantART wrote:
Vectors-R-US:
They do it to trigger fan-fictions. Fur da lulz. Cuz you know how those fan stories can get... *shudders*

VladimirMacHolzraum:
So the writers put things in the show just so they can read our screwed-up fanfics? That explains everything


Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:58 pm
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Shuckle-rock$ wrote:
Thundurus and Excadrill are out of OU now

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread ... ost3897900

This should help patch up OU a bit

Took them long enough. Excadrill should have been kicked out ages ago.
On the flip side, Sandstorm now has very little going for it now. But oh well, we'll make do.

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Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:24 pm
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Other than Excadrill and Thundurus, is the OP accurate? I honestly haven't been paying much attention to competitive this generation so I may have missed something getting banned.

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:51 am
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yup, those are the only bans since Garchomp.

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:33 am
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I personally think the Blaziken and Excadrill bans should be more specific. Blaze Blaziken doesn't boast much of a threat in Ubers, so having it usable in the lower tiers would be nice. Sand Rush was the only thing that got Excadrill banned. There's a Drizzle/Swift Swim ban: Why can't there be a Sand Stream/Sand Rush ban? Excadrill has two other perfectly usable abilities in Sand Force and Mold Breaker anyway.

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Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:17 am
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(mold breaker is unreleased, however)

I suppose that a Sand Rush ban with Sand Stream in play could work. However, Excadrill is pretty fast himself (base 88 Speed is nothing to sneeze at), and so Sand Force could end up being worse than Sand Rush. I dunno. That would probably need testing.

also are we going to ban Deoxys-E since Smogon has just recently?

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Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:51 pm
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QUESTION!!! (sorry if it's been too long since the last post) but, Why is the banlist so important? I mean I understand banning legendaries, and maybe ubers, but why is there a universal banlist and not a new one for each individual tourney, sometimes it's fun to see who can build the cheepest team ya know? :)

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Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:56 pm
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ulquiorra wrote:
QUESTION!!! (sorry if it's been too long since the last post) but, Why is the banlist so important? I mean I understand banning legendaries, and maybe ubers, but why is there a universal banlist and not a new one for each individual tourney, sometimes it's fun to see who can build the cheepest team ya know? :)


I've bolded two segments in your post, to more effectively illustrate the point I'm about to make.

The reason that things are banned or otherwise restricted is exactly because they are cheap and/or overpowered, such as the case of Excadrill or Blaziken. Another factor is due to unpredictability, which was the main reason behind the banning of Deoxys [Speed]. And although some people like cheap matches, not everyone does.

There are such things as Uber-tier matches, where you can use the Pokemon in the Uber tier as you please, but in most cases, the use of Ubers is shunned because they overcentralize things. That's why the banlist for the OU tier are the way they are. (The banlists for lower tiers are a bit more complex and they go primarily on usage, but it's mostly the same methodology being used.)

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Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:23 pm
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Okay I can see that, but what about the held items? I mean, if the resource is there, why not use it? and in the case of bright powder, wouldn't your opponent just have to make sure he's got lock-on somewhere in his arsenal? and if we ban moves that increase evasiveness i.e. minimize, why not ban double-team (I haven't checked the list in a while so forgive me if it's been banned xD) or sand attack ect. I guess I'm just saying couldn't you rationalize almost anything? Just a question, not an attack on the system. Haha

But, yeah, I can understand the bans. Aren't there in game rule sets? or are they just flawed?

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Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:29 pm
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